Register now to get rid of these ads!

Y-Block Death Rattle?...Help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by teamslacker, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Commish
    Joined: Jan 9, 2010
    Posts: 379

    Commish
    Member
    from NW Ok

    How close is the harmonic balancer to the front crossmember, I have seen motor mounts sag just sitting until the balancer rubbed, and that is what it sounds like, a rattling rubbing sound.
     
  2. teamslacker
    Joined: Sep 30, 2009
    Posts: 16

    teamslacker
    Member

    Hey, thanks for all the replies. So, I pulled the starter, and I really don't know what to look for, but it don't look right. The first pic is the entire starter, is this how the bendix should look? The second and third pic show the play in the starter shaft, it slides in and out about 1/4"...is this normal?? The fourth and fifth pic show scrapes along the bendix(?), I think this could be the source of my "death rattle". Would the play in the shaft cause this? If this is the cause, what would I do to fix it.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    i had a 292 yblock in my 58 ford. 2 years ago last month, i drove it and noticed that exact same sound as yours in that video, except it was less noticeable... it grew in loudness but not to that extent. one day, i drove to the gym... go about a mile away from my house, then it made this horrible clanking clacking sound, and i heard it rattling around.


    months after it was towed to my grandpas, i inspected the oil pan. my cam had broke into 3 pieces. part of the rod holding the piston came off completley and was destroyed. it was carniage in my engine. .....hate to say it but it may be that
     
  4. teamslacker
    Joined: Sep 30, 2009
    Posts: 16

    teamslacker
    Member

    luvzccr: I hope that isn't it, but thanks for the info. Check out my above post, do you think the starter is effed up, and causing the noise? I really don't know if that shaft play is normal, but it seems excessive. The flywheel seems okay, from what I could see (more feel). If I hear the starter play is normal, I will pull the pan, and then start tearing into the engine...yum
     
  5. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 889

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    Thats interesting you took the starter off and it looks the way it does. After leaving work yesterday I was thinking a bit more about your noise and how maybe the starter drive is not all the way out and the flex plate is kissing it.
     
  6. Ole don
    Joined: Dec 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,915

    Ole don
    Member

    Well, heres another fine mess youve gotten us into. I dont know which would be more work, pulling the damper and front cover, or pulling the pan. If you have not started pulling parts yet, think about this. Did the motor use oil? it has good OP now. How will the car be used? Will you eep the car for several more years? Maybe it would actually be easier to remove the motor and work on it on a stand. I had a Maverick come in once, a mechanic had goiven the guy a quote of 1100 bucks to replace the main bearings. I tightened the four converter nuts sent him off with no charge. I have seen FE and Y block fuel pumps make a god awful noise. If the motor is warmed up, shut it off and remove the fuel pump. The motor will run a couple minutes with the gas in the carb. (most FE and Y block fuel pumps are the same) The damper comes apart on Y blocks. Send it to Damper Dudes for repair. They are good guys. Keep us informed.
     
  7. terryble
    Joined: Sep 25, 2008
    Posts: 541

    terryble
    Member
    from canada

    From the video it is hard to tell but doesn't sound like a rod to me, as you were videoing it sounded more intense down low and to the front I would try taking the balancer off and starting it up, but the mystory to me is it ran quiet 2 years ago! Thought about this alot and keep coming back to something at the front of the motor. You said you loosened the fan belt did you take it right off? If not try that it really sounds like a bad damper/balancer or a dry water pump bearing.
     
  8. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,945

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Is it possible to start the motor, and then loosen or remove the starter to see if that is the problem? Those scuff marks on the starter bendix don't look normal. And I think the drive is in the wrong position, normally at rest the drive is further away from the body of the starter, and when it spins the inertia "screws" the bendix into engagement with the ring gear. Is that screw section of the starter shaft lubricated, and does the starter gear move back and forth easily?
     
  9. Keep
    Joined: May 10, 2008
    Posts: 662

    Keep
    Member

    Get some tool maker dye. Clean the starter off spray it with the dye, reinstall the starter. Start it back up to listen for the noise. Pull start see if marks are in the dye.
     
  10. RancheroMan
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 260

    RancheroMan
    Member

    the starter teeth look a little worn, but i'd guess its a separated damper. my mustang did that and it sounded awful.
     
  11. anteek
    Joined: Feb 27, 2009
    Posts: 394

    anteek
    Member

    x2 on checking the fuel pump pin.While the pump is off,reach in and feel the amount of timing chain slop. But first pull the fan belt and see if the noise goes away. Warm the engine up and then pour a small amount of water in the carb with it running 1500-2000rpm. continue doing till you run a beer can thru it. DO NOT choke the engine off by putting too much water in. This blows the carbon off the top of the pistons. Anything further is a matter of conjecture.
     
  12. notrod13
    Joined: Dec 13, 2005
    Posts: 987

    notrod13
    Member
    from long beach

    thats exactly what i was thinking or it could be something really simple like the exhaust or header rattling on the crossmember....
    I wanna know why oil wasnt shooting everywhere while the valve cover was off in the few first seconds of the video..
     
  13. notrod13
    Joined: Dec 13, 2005
    Posts: 987

    notrod13
    Member
    from long beach

    i have a fresh rebuilt starter if you need one too.
     
  14. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,945

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I really think that two years of sitting idle just allowed the grease on the starter bendix to dry out a little, now it's sticking and raising hell. You don't have rod bearings go out, cam chains suddenly loosen up, etc. just from sitting. He has good oil pressure, he's already taken the belts off and run it, same noise. And the fact that it isn't related to RPM should rule out most of the stuff that's being suggested as faulty.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  15. teamslacker
    Joined: Sep 30, 2009
    Posts: 16

    teamslacker
    Member

    Thanks for all the replies. I am going to rule out the starter then start on the other suggestions.

    Ebbsspeed: the bendix is bone dry, and takes effort to move. I will be sure to lube it before I install again.

    I pulled the starter and painted the bendix to identify any contact points (as Keep suggested), reinstalled the starter, started the car, took the starter off again (I really need to replace that top bolt with a stud!). The only paint missing is on the gear where it engages the flywheel.

    There is 1/4" in slack in the starter shaft (the shaft can pull in and out of the housing a 1/4"). Is this normal and could this slack cause the starter gear to make contact with the flywheel? Pictures below show the slack I am describing.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  16. blackrat40
    Joined: Apr 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,167

    blackrat40
    Member

    Sounds like maybe the starter gear is not disengaging from the
    flywheel ring gear after the engine starts ?
     
  17. RayJarvis
    Joined: Oct 11, 2010
    Posts: 209

    RayJarvis
    Member

    hi i fired my 368 with with about the same results. It was the starter not disengaging from the starter ringgear. worth a look
     
  18. teamslacker
    Joined: Sep 30, 2009
    Posts: 16

    teamslacker
    Member

    Hey guys, thanks for responding. I need to know if the slop I described a couple posts above is normal, before I reinstall the starter and move on. Thanks for your help.
     
  19. LostHope
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 687

    LostHope
    Member

    i just swapped a adapter and th350 tranny and just pulled my ford-o-matic and starter that worked fine and just looked at the starter that looks to be in great shape and it has 1/16 to a 1/8 at most play on starter(not like your 1/4) id suggest you just buy a new starter and rule that part out....also on the trouqe converter the tabs that bolt to the flywheel some where rivited on if those rivets get loose they make a horrible racket also. just my 2 cents
     
  20. ottoman
    Joined: May 4, 2008
    Posts: 280

    ottoman
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I also think its the starter drive.
     
  21. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,208

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    I'd try pulling off my belt and start there..
     
  22. mustang552
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 170

    mustang552
    BANNED

    a chunk of carbon could easily have come loose after sitting that long. I t can make a lot of noise. a rod bearing will "float" at higher rpm. a main loose thumps at low rpm. Is the noise in time with the piston or slower, with the valve train? Yo ucan also short one cylinder out at a time to narrow it down. Hell, take the motor out and tear it down, then let us know what you find.
     
  23. terryble
    Joined: Sep 25, 2008
    Posts: 541

    terryble
    Member
    from canada

    This has been a very interesting subject with some very informative help hope when you figure it out you will let us know what it was, so often on here there is a long thread with lot's of info but we are left hanging when the solution is found and the originator doesn't tell! Come on Teamslacker inquiring minds need to know!
     
  24. teamslacker
    Joined: Sep 30, 2009
    Posts: 16

    teamslacker
    Member

    I just wanted to give an update to all those that have given suggestions, I'm still looking.

    Been busy with the family so I have not had much time...but....I took off the starter, painted it to look for weird grinding areas, took it off again cleaned and lubed the bendix, removed the fan belt, took off the damper and ran it without, ran water into the carb to steam off any carbon from the pistons, checked all exhaust and anything else that could externally make a racket, and crawled underneath the damn thing while it was running (I hate doing that, all that metal shaking above my pretty mug) with my ear to a hose trying to find where the sound is coming from...what'd I get for the effort?...I am really good at removing/installing the starter from a Y-Block in a late '50's Ford, but I can't find my noise source.

    It's not the fuel pump, I have an electric one. I am starting to think maybe timing chain is rattling, tomorrow I am going to take off the fuel pump block-off and try to feel the slop in the chain if I can. Next step, pull the pan, then the heads, if I can't find anything I just may drive the dang thing till whatever is making noise "self clearances", or the thing blows up (that's the frustration talking). The engine runs great except for this noise, all plugs look good. Someone suggested unbolting the torque converter to eliminate the trans as the culprit. I have never done this before. If I just unbolt the converter and push it back, I am afraid it will catch on the flywheel in some weird way and ruin my day. Anyone have experience with this?

    My 13yo son says it sounds like when something is stuck in the garbage disposal...he is right it does sound like a 3/8" nut is bouncing around in the garbage disposal, if only I had a garbage disposal on my car I would be done already! Does this sound like something you have heard before?? For more detail of my problem, please see the first post. Thanks again everyone.
     
  25. I suggest going in from the front before pulling the pan.

    In your video the sound got much louder as you got towards the front lower section of the car.

    I would pull the water pump,and timing case cover and see what you find.

    As a "Y Block" guy I"m interested in getting to the bottom of this noise.

    Oldmics
     
  26. jaz
    Joined: Dec 16, 2010
    Posts: 218

    jaz
    Member
    from London, UK

    Hi Teamslacker

    I'm based in the UK and have a very similar problem with my y-block after it too had a two year vacation! it starts first time, has good oil pressure, doesn't burn oil and runs great except for a darn horrible rattle which is driving me mad! Nobody in the UK seems to know about these engines so I am hoping you can find a cure for us both - good luck buddy :)
     
  27. jaz
    Joined: Dec 16, 2010
    Posts: 218

    jaz
    Member
    from London, UK

    bump - need some answers
     
  28. lexington
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 83

    lexington
    Member

    Have you figured the noise out yet? Iquireing minds want to know.If not check the crankdampner loose or balance ring off
     
  29. rick55
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 119

    rick55
    Member

    If the noise is coming from the engine, eg big end bearing, removing the plug lead on that cylinder will change the noise.
    I would think the noise is almost certainly flexplate related. The early flexplates are renowned for coming loose on the ears and when they do you would swear the engine is kaput. If you can get under the car whilst it is running you will certainly be able to find wherevthe noise is coming from. Have you tried a stethoscope or a screwdriver held against the engine to hear what the noise sounds like.
    Regards
     
  30. RancheroMan
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 260

    RancheroMan
    Member

    i posted up your issue on Y-block forum.
    one person also mentioned a loose flexplate.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.