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Technical Y Block 2bbl > 4bbl Swap ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Malarky, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    I am looking to get a little more horse power out of my 292 y block, without getting too far into it. The engine was rebuilt less than 5000 miles ago and it runs great. Its just that it has no balls at all.

    It had a couple leaks and a cracked exhaust manifold so i decided to make a few improvements. Its currently dis-assembled for paint.

    My plans... generator to alternator swap, reds headers, 2bbl > 4bbl swap, petronix ignition, new dual exhaust with smithy's.

    I got a B intake from a '57 y block and I'm eye-balling the 390cfm Holley. Does anyone have any suggestion on a carburetor? Or anything else? Maybe something I'm overlooking or is this a terrible idea all together?

    Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated as I do not have much experience working on engines.
     
  2. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,948

    loudbang
    Member

    That holley would work OK but you could use one of the 500cfm vacuum secondaries model for just a bit more without going overboard
     
  3. I suppose we should ask about the vehicle, rear end ratio etc. too.
     
  4. I'll be putting a 500 cfm Edelbrock on mine. It has a decent cam in it and just rebuilt. Much more than that on yours would be overdone depending on the cam and ratios as mentioned above.
     

  5. steinauge
    Joined: Feb 28, 2014
    Posts: 1,507

    steinauge
    Member
    from 1960

    I have a 55 Ford that I just put a fresh 292 into.I am using a 600 Edelbrock and it works really well.The engine is stock except for shaved heads, a little port work and a mild Isky cam.I would think the 5 or 600 would work for you.Truthfully I chose the 600 because it was on sale and the 500 wasnt.
     
  6. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    The car is an otherwise stock 1962 Mercury Monterey with 292 y block .03 over, stock cam , auto 2 speed and I think rear end is 3.00:1

    I used the cfm calculator on summits web site and it came to just under 390. I've heard of people having good results with larger (500-600) carbs but I really don't want to over carb it. This car will never be a hot rod.


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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
  7. If it was me I would have the generator properly rebuilt and keep it. The main problem with most rebuilds is that they just fix the immediate problem and send it down the road to fail again soon. Find someone to go through it completely.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  8. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 890

    PackardV8
    Member

    Use the Holley because it's a Ford. IIRC, that's where the 390 CFM first appeared. I've used them on 312" and 302" and always worked well.

    jack vines
     
    loudbang likes this.
  9. What cam do you have in there? The correct cam is going to be crucial to waking that motor up. Being in a heavy boat of a '62 Monterey, you are going to want a cam profile that makes a ton of torque low in the rpm range. The 390 cfm 4 barrel is perfect for a low rpm grunty type of operation. Of course since you already have the motor out, a FE is bolt in swap, and will give you much more torque then the Y-block for a lot less cash.
     
  10. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,419

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've used the old Ford 'Teapot' 4 bbl on high performance 292s,, my '56 ragtop (no lightweight!) turned consistent low 14s @ 92 MPH back in '59.

    BUT! Since then, due to the astronomical prices of rebuild kits/throttle shaft bushings/shafts for the Ford carbs versus the availability of Edelbrock 600s, I've used the Edelbrock (600) on everything from 289/302 SBFs, and 292/312 Yblocks. Never a symptom of 'overcarburetion', docile at low speeds and responsive and efficient at wide open throttle. Good mileage as well.
    A 600 is NOT akin to bolting a 750 on there.
     
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  11. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,419

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If we're talking any possibility of an engine 'replant', I second the nomination for the FE! (390 has the cubes and compression ratio, worth the installation)
     
  12. while the FE motor may make more power I just love the sound of the Y block. I have one in my '30 sedan and it too is a little down on power. I'm running a '53 Buick rochester 4 jet carb now but picked up a '57 T-bird Holley and the "B" intake to try to get some more power.
     
  13. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    I'm not sure exactly what cam went in but I'm sure it was just a stock replacement. The motor is not coming out for paint. I do have a 289 with a c4 but I love my Y and want to keep it. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1414601917.262487.jpg


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  14. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    I agree. Best sounding engine imo.


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  15. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    I guess my main concern is that it's ok to put a 4bbl setup on an engine that originally had a 2bbl on it.

    I thought about installing a new mild cam but I really don't want to tear into it too much being that it is a somewhat fresh rebuild and runs so well. I was just hoping that with the right carb/intake and headers that it'll wake up a little.

    If I did swap out the cam, would I need to replace anything else as well?


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  16. fordfeller
    Joined: Dec 17, 2008
    Posts: 10

    fordfeller
    Member

    Marlarky:

    I think you are on the right track. I love the sound of Y blocks, and though they may not be the fastest on the strip, for me they can't be beat for just cruising around. For a stock 292, the 390 should work great. I'd also make sure that you have a good ignition setup as some of the early Fords (pre '57s) had a pretty poor advance system. You might want to look at the Y Block web site, thay have a lot of info there.

    Larry
     
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  17. Looks like it is coming along nicely. I completely understand about wanting to keep the Y, and I commend you for it. To take full advantage of the 4 bbl and headers, you should swap the cam out as well. If it is a stock replacement 2 bbl cam, I would definitely stay away from any 4 bbl larger than 500 cfm. The 390 Holley will work well and wake it up some, but there is some power left on the table. If you do switch cams, the only other items you should replace are the lifters and timing set, standard replacement items for any cam swap. And since you already have the intake and water pump off, it is not to much work to pull the timing cover, pushrods, and lifters and toss a new cam in there.

    Keep up the good work.
     
  18. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,399

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Hey FROZENMERC :Did you forget : those lifters come out the BOTTOM? They are nearly impossible to change without turning the block upside down: yes the engine needs to come out to do a cam/lifter swap!!
     
  19. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,948

    loudbang
    Member

    not if you ever worked on a Y block if you did the old close pin on the pulled all the way up lifers works just fine to keep the out of the way even right side up and in the car. :)
     
  20. drtrcrV-8. Your right, to change the lifters, they have to come out of the bottom of the block. My memory failed me again. It has been a few years since I tore a Y down. FE's and MEL's have gotten my attention lately.
     
  21. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    Ok, so the cam idea is out unless I want to pull the engine?


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  22. Not necessarily. like loudbang suggested, you can take a cloths pin and hold the lifters up while you swap a new cam in. You just can't change lifters without dropping the crank and pan. OEM lifters often don't play nice with bigger cam profiles. If you stick to a RV style cam or even something close to the stock 4 bbl Y block profile (think '57 312), you should be fine.
     
  23. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    Thank you all for the information.
    Frozenmerc, you have always been helpful

    I'm going to shop around tonight (hopefully) for a cam and chain. I've got all winter to finish up so who knows, I may have been talked into it.

    I'll run it past you all before I purchase anything.


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  24. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,344

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    I would check out John Mummerts website ford-y-block.com for cam information. Theres also more Yblock information there that might come in handy. As far as the carb choice the Holley 390 is a good one. You also might consider an Autolite 4100. They're a good, trouble free carb to run on the street.
     
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  25. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    Ok cool, thanks


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  26. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    I checked out John's site and these two cams look like they may be what I need. Should I stick with the milder of the two? Do I need to install new springs with the cam , or should mine be ok?

    RPM range/
    Idle quality/ ADV Duration /Duration .050"/ Valve Lift /Separation/ Springs/ Lash

    A: 1800-5000,
    Good, 260, 214, .420, 108, VS95 , .016
    Good entry level performance cam. Okay with Ford-o-matic

    B: 1800-5500, Good, 265, 224, .436, 110, VS95, .018
    Works well with Ford-o-matic or exhaust manifolds Great mild street cam.



    This one from Schneider looks good too...

    Part Number: 13051
    Grind Number: 258F
    Intake Duration (gross): 258
    Exhaust Duration (gross): 258
    Intake Duration (.050”): 214
    Exhaust Duration (.050”): 214
    Intake Valve Lift*: .462"
    Exhaust Valve Lift*: .462"
    Lobe Separation: 110
    Intake Valve Lash: .014"
    Exhaust Valve Lash: .014"
    RPM Range: 1800-5000
     
  27. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,344

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    If you look at the chart they suggest new valve springs with all their cams. After 57 they detuned the Yblock. They're not real compression monsters so I would go with the 265. The Schneider cam looks good also. Yblocks like a lot of lift & the shorter duration will help the idle.
     
  28. I agree with 57Custom300. Go with choice B or the Schneider. New springs are always a good idea with a new cam.
     
  29. Tedd
    Joined: Jul 7, 2007
    Posts: 119

    Tedd
    Member

    The lifters can be changed out in the vehicle using the Ford tool. Lifters still have to be held in place with wooden clothes pins while this is taking place though. Takes about 2-2½ hours to change the lifters out using that tool. If you need more information on that tool, here's a link.
    http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost29355.aspx
     
  30. Malarky
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 330

    Malarky
    Member

    OK so its pretty much done. A few odds and ends to finish up yet like install new master cylinder and run new brake lines. Plus some cosmetic stuff. I don't like my air cleaner, looking for a gold one.
    I decided not to mess with the cam.
    The entire engine bay got a good cleaning. Prepped, primed and painted, including underside of hood.
    I stripped the engine down and took as many parts as i could down to metal. I was pleased to see how clean this motor was inside.
    New reds headers. 4bbl b intake and Holley 4160 4bbl carb. Alternator swap. All new belts, hoses, plugs, wires, etc... The expansion tank was leaking so I found an nos online. Fixed the transmission leaks. Yadda Yadda...
    Im starting to bore you so here's some pics. A few progress shots and where I'm at now........
     

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