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Hot Rods Would single stage urethane be good paint for a brown metallic?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by old_chevy, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. old_chevy
    Joined: May 28, 2012
    Posts: 69

    old_chevy
    Member
    from USA

    Would single stage urethane be a good paint for a dark brown metallic?

    I'm trying to decide bc/cc or single state urethane. From the factory it came with acrylic enamel. It will be professionally painted. The shops tell me bc/cc especially for metallic paint. But I think that is because it is easier to paint bc/cc. I've read that darker metallic colours can work well with single stage urethane. I'm going to talk to a restoration shop. Any advice?
     
  2. The problem with single stage metallics is they can't be color sanded and buffed. If you try, they tend to get blotchy. If you're just going to spray it and go, it's fine. I'd recommend a BC/CC for best results.
     
  3. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
    Member

    I painted a Sportster tank and fenders a dark brown bourbon metallic . Using some left over Kirker single stage.
    It came out great and it got wet sanded with 2000 and buffed and did not look blotchy. I let the tank and fenders set outside for about a week in the Florida sun to harden before I started sanding on them.
    I had a few dirt specks that needed to be sanded out and then buffed. Just lucky I guess. Too dumb to know you can't do that.
    A high volume shop in Brunswick, Ga. painted my 70 Chevelle drag car and they told me to color sand and buff the orange peel out of the paint. They even sent one of their guys over to my shop to show me how they wanted it done.
    Between his lack of the english language and my lack of the spanish language we managed to figure it out. I had many compliments on the paint job and it was Hugger Orange metallic single stage urethane.
     
    Truckdoctor Andy likes this.
  4. when you spray a single stage metallic paint, you will need to: get proper color coverage, get the metallic to lay out even, and get it to lay down smooth and shiny while building a good protective layer. to do all three takes some skill level and practice.
    the benefit of a two stage is the first two, proper color coverage and getting the metallic even can be concentrated on, with out worrying about making it shiny, when you lay down the base coat. when clearing it, all that you have to achieve is a good protective coat that is shiny.
    breaking the steps up make it easier and produce a better finish.
     
    RMR&C and jetnow1 like this.

  5. How nice do you want it to look? All paint finishes will have some level of ‘peel’ straight out of the gun. If you want the surface of the paint flat and slick with a deep gloss- then the best results will be obtained with a two stage system because there are more options available for refining the paint surface after it has been applied. Single stage Metallic finishes won’t work or won’t work as well with some of those options.
     
  6. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,953

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    I wouldn't....
     
  7. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 613

    KenC
    Member

    It depends on the skill of the painter. I personally prefer the look of single stage. But with metallics it is difficult to get the shiny bits evenly distributed. It's easy to get a splotchy, uneven look or orange peel when trying to apply it dryer to avoid that. Two stage base is easier to do that with.

    I still prefer single as b/c just looks to plastic to me on old cars.
     
  8. Once you get coverage and even metallic on your single stage, You can mix 50% clear in your single stage on last coat or 2 coats so you have some sanding room to scuff and buff..
     
  9. Can it be done...yes...it’s all about gun set up, technique, etc...but unless your going for some 100 point resto ,the cars 100% stock and worth $$$$ why would you? Also I gotta ask is it a late 60’s 70’s car?

    If it was a non metallic color I’d say spray away..but the BC\CC I gonna look better, easier to make look better, and will also be easier to repair if need be...

    I just think of Root Beer brown and how bitchin it looks from HOK..I don’t think you’ll get that same look from a gallon of Nason....
     
  10. old_chevy
    Joined: May 28, 2012
    Posts: 69

    old_chevy
    Member
    from USA

    I think the bc /cc looks to modern for a classic. What if I used acrylic enamel with a hardener would that work better with a metallic?
     
  11. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 7,737

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Did a metallic brown '56 Olds two tone years ago in single stage Centari. Sanded and buffed. Got lucky, came out great, didn't look too 'modern'. Also did a silver Merc Capri that was fine. Centari was great..
     
  12. You need to talk to the shop painting it not us. If they are not comfortable doing it it doesn't matter what anyone on here says.
     
  13. old_chevy
    Joined: May 28, 2012
    Posts: 69

    old_chevy
    Member
    from USA

    I think Centari has been discontinued.
     
  14. Sounds like ya kinda got your mind made up...but remember this...Your asking about urethane ss....what do you think by/cc is...it’s urethane....If you really wanna get all old timey order up some lacquer...Think of this though...sounds like your paying for this job? When ya get it back and it looks “OK” and your parked next to another car, whose owner spent the same amount of money, and his car looks way better, from a shine, depth, etc will you be happy?
    Do you mind sharing what the paints going on...this may help understand why your thinking about using ss metallic

    If it was a non metallic I’d say go for it...Hell I actually prefer it...but not for metallic
     
  15. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 4,827

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is the best thing about single stage urethane. I'll go 50% on my 3rd coat and straight clear on the final. Gives me an out if it does need cut and buffed. But i always thought the purpose of single stage paint was the peel? That's what my customers want with an acrylic job. I'll nib sand any small spots but i don't do a full cut & buff. If i was gonna do that I'll go 2 stage.
     
    bchctybob likes this.
  16. N2hotrods
    Joined: Jul 6, 2010
    Posts: 146

    N2hotrods
    Member

    I have had success with matrix single stage urethane metallics.
     
  17. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 4,827

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    But like K13 said, we're not painting it :D
     
    0NE BAD 51 MERC likes this.
  18. old_chevy
    Joined: May 28, 2012
    Posts: 69

    old_chevy
    Member
    from USA

    I'm rather new at this. What is the benefit with cutting and buffing bc /cc? If I don't cut and buff single stage what could be the result?

    I don't like clear because it can peal and pealing has happened to me in the past. I also think the bc /cc looks to plastic and modern. I don't mind waxing and buffing out oxidized paint. Maybe acrylic enamel is what I should go with. I read that this gives good shine and the metallic lay well with it. I thought about using a hardener so that he paint is more durable.

    I'm going thru a shop on this. Everyone says bc/cc but I think that is because it is the easiest to paint. I'm not looking for a concourse paint job. I would like to have a more vintage look.

    I'm not looking for a better then factory paint.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  19. then use lacquer
     
  20. Cutting and buffing gives paint that "FLAT" FINISH" look Like looking in a mirror,with out it you will have what some call orange peel finish kind of rough textured look, Now I have seen some painters get a good flat finish with out rubbing it out.. Me myself that will never happen, When I was in a shop I was always told NOT to lay it down flat due to getting runs in the paint. Since everything got cut and rubbed anyways and runs in the paint would have to be sanded out and repainted. That pigment sag will always be there and seen.
    If you are going to a shop to have this done If possible see if you can look at a pant job out of the booth before rubbing it out and how flat the paint looks.. If your happy with it There you go...
    Most shops I have seen cut and rub everything just the way it is, Except for like MAACO you get what you pay for.
    Like I said tho, Some painters can lay that stuff down good and get a factory look with out rubbing it. Even a factory finish is NOT a real flat finish like a show car.
     
  21. Yeah....I wouldn’t worry about peeling CC...if you want a vintage look why are you going with a metallic? I’ve asked before what year the car is...and if you seriously want an “ok” paint job and are paying for it...take it to Maaco. They paint lots of completes, your not concerned about peel and looking at single stage, this would be your best bet. When I was a teen I did the bodywork and de trimmed my car, drove it there, they painted it white, I drove it home, color sanded and rubbed it, looked great and was cheaper than me buying the materials.

    I guess I’m having trouble wrapping my head around paying for an ok paint job... but you’ll make some shop and some painter very happy..
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  22. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 4,827

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Already been answered, but my answer to you is that 2 stage leaves you an out. If a bug or dust gets in your paint, you have the ability to sand it out and buff it without disturbing the color. With single stage paint, you risk messing with the metallic when you put sandpaper on it. I like single stage paints, acrylic enamel and acrylic urethane anyway, but they require love and understanding. And a guy that doesn't spray it on a regular basis, will take your brown metallic paint and give you one hell of a zebra striped job :D i drop my temp on my hardener a little, and once I'm covered, i go about 75% reducer and watch that metallic flow like a drunk stripper ;):cool:
     
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  23. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 4,827

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm running a special on my "ok" paint jobs right now, they still cost the same, but i don't have to try so damn hard. Come on down, I'll treat ya ok ;)
     
    metlmunchr likes this.
  24. Right....I can’t imagine a customer saying I want it to look ok..not too good...Ok is fine....the Mgr. coming to the booth “ hey don’t make that one look too good”...I have a bad feeling this thread is going down the road of fake patina and “magnesium look”
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  25. Everyone wants an ok paint job until they see it and then they cry that "they got ripped off".
    My guess is IF he can force a shop to do something they are not comfortable with he will be on here bitching that the paint job looks like shit.
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  26. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 3,088

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Tiki, it’s a concept that sounds strange in print but it can make sense in reality. Some time ago I built a car aiming at a particular time period and build style. I needed a clean, colorful surface with the period correct color not a smooth, highly reflective, custom look. It was an interesting conversation, it seems everyone wants a mirror-like shine these days. Luckily, he was old enough to understand the concept. They did good. A light factory-like peel that would knock down nicely with a garden variety cleaner/wax. You would be surprised how many positive comments I heard about the “Simonize shine” on the car and how it captures the good old days.
    I agree with some of the others who think the bc/cc system can look out of place on some old cars.
     
  27. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,989

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    From a less than expert point of view...........
    1. If you use a solid color and a single stage paint you can work on it after its painted
    2. If you use a metallic in the single stage, it is difficult/impossible to work because it will cause blotches in metallic
    3. You possibly can add some clear to the single stage third coat (or a complete clear) and be able to sand it
    4. You can BC/CC and easily sand and buff
    5. If you BC/CC you may have to contend with too much gloss and possible flaking of clear coat later on

    Does that cover everything pretty well ?:D

    I have to say that the idea of adding clear or a complete clear seems like a good idea.

    My favorite hot rod is the Doyle Gammel 32 Ford that was painted "rootbeer" brown.
     
    bchctybob likes this.
  28. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 4,827

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I hear this and read it all the time. I think people look at late model cars with the clear peeling or deteriorated from improper care and it gives clearcoat a bad rap. I guess I'm doing something right, because I've never had clear come off of anything I've painted. That i know of anyway. I see cars at the shows all year long that i painted YEARS ago and they still look great. It's a pride thing. I feel good about not cutting corners. It's the impartiality thing, do unto others as you'd have done to you. People work hard for their money, and my reputation is on that paint job ;)
     
    bchctybob and ekimneirbo like this.
  29. A lot of the clearcoats always peeling myths came from when the OEM's first started their switch to waterbourne paints and they had issues with the clears adhering and there was a lot of peeling due to product failures. It hasn't been a real issue for years if, as you say, proper procedures and some degree of common sense care is taken when using it. Just like any other paint product.
     
  30. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 4,827

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yeah i wish i had all of the money i made from fixing those issues :rolleyes: But something i was thinking about is the fact that you don't have to cut & buff clear if you don't want to. If you like the look of it once it's on the car, then leave it alone! It's just that you have that ability to correct an issue if the need rears its ugly head. And like Mike said, if it's a solid acrylic, there's no issue with disturbing the way the metallic lays, so throw an extra coat on and sand until your heart's content. Yeah it's a skilled job, but it's not rocket surgery. I've got a 2020 Mustang GT sitting here taped up and getting ready to shoot. All this talk has me paranoid :p:D sure hope the clear don't peel!
     
    bchctybob and ekimneirbo like this.

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