The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by todd_a, Jul 26, 2009.
Hey, that's neat! Who made that intake setup? I really like the split inlet/outlet carb riser.
That is an old Rotomaster/Turbosonic Accel setup.
It has a priority valve in the adapter to help with the Turbo Lag.
I modified a single plane intake for it.
And it had a pretty crude deal to controll the boost that I took off, I replaced that with a Wastegate.
That looks like an old accel setup (woops...just read that it was).
There is some good information in this thread and some bad.
Older turbos are actually not that bad - especially if you are staying with Rotomaster, or AiResearch medium frame turbos. They are the small block chevy of turbos.
They are all basically T04's and you can put any compressor you want in them and they will externally look the same. Rayjays to a lesser degree, but they have much better bearings, and a larger shaft. The CHRA and shaft is the only real difference and with minor machine work, whatever wheel you want will go into them also.
Check the compressor maps and you will see that some of them are just as efficent as modern turbos (The S4 compressor has a peak island of 76% and flows enough for about 400hp, the 62-1 compressor peaks at 78% and will flow a lot more).
Also, the only real drawback of a draw through system is that you cannot use an intercooler, and you need to have a turbo that is rated for such duty. Its all about the seals in it. A properly setup draw through system is just as good as a non intercooled blowthrough. In some ways it can be better and is easier to setup. You get a more homogenized mixture.
If you want ultimate power - go blowthrough with an intercooler. Otherwise, it does't really matter.
I have one of those accel setups if anyones interested. Looks cool metalshapes, If I ever get around to using mine before someone buys it I will be in touch with you.
Awesome responses guys! I sort of let this one die out for a while.
The plan would more than likely be a blow-through setup. I am more than familiar with fabricating a turbo setup. I built about 7 or 8 so far on mustangs in the past. I've done twins and singles. Intercooled and non-intercooled. I've used water/alcohol injection with no intercooler and ran 13 psi with and I know a guy that has run 18psi with only water/alcohol injection on a similar setup.
I still have the jigs for the last twin setup I designed for a 5.0 that would put the turbos above and forward the valve covers a little and still allow the use of the factory A/C, Power Steering and alternator and smog pump in their factory locations. That was a tough one. If I was using a ford 302, then I would be about set with that one, but I have a 327 in this car, so I'll be starting from scratch.
I think I would probably go with twins and the idea I had in my head was very similar to that pic of the blue car with the twin paxtons. I'd probably use a single carb more because I already have a CSU carb bonnet for a 4 bbl.
I think some nicely fabricated headers and down pipes with as much traditional style as possible would give it a nice look of pushing for more while retaining a somewhat traditional look.
8 - 10 psi should not require intercooler or alcohol injection unless the compression is over 9.5:1. At least that has been my observation in the past. One cool thing that many people don't understand as an advantage to running a blowthrough setup is that when the compressed charge is passed through the carb venturis it actually acts as a mini-intercooler and cools the charge a little. It isn't much, but it is some.
The major issue I see at this point is ignition - mine is a points distributor now and there isn't room to stuff a HEI in there (plus I hate the look), so I"ll either have to trust a pertronics, or shell out the cash for a MSD (OH DON'T SAY IT) "Billet" distributor.
I have been missing the run involved with turbocharged V8's since I sold the stang several years ago. This is very tempting!!!!!
I love turbos.
Points work, you can hide an MSD under the dash or somewhere and use a stock points distributor to trigger it. or find one of the old CD ignition boxes and put that in there... I found a new in the box Delta a while back.
Yeah, I guess I could trigger with the points distributor, and I have a MSD6AL on the shelf new in the box. hummmmmmm....
I need to start looking for some turbos I guess!
Hey man that's a wild looking little Ford. What is it in?
I think the Chicken Hawk did go to turbos later on but was single and then dual supercharged with McCullochs. I was reading an old Hot Rod Reunion flier that had an overview of car a few days ago. I had never heard of it having turbos. The Mallecoat's and the Hemi honker come to mind for early turbo cars but nothing before the mid sixties...
I just saw on a google search that in 1962 Chevy's corvair was offered with a turbo. So, early '60's you could find them on production cars... You would think that someone out there must have tried to add one to a rod at that time or earlier.
Did you find the early 60s Olds turbo car too?
Maybe someone did try, but apparently they weren't too successful or we would know about it.
I enjoy the fact that the traditional police will complain, then ask where to get parts for their traditional car..... via the internet.
It's like a hippy telling you that the earth needs to be saved while they are drinking out of a plastic container, eating someting in a cellophane wrapper, and smoking.
Some people will never get it. And there's no point in arguing with them. If they try to hassle you just smile, cause the fact is that 90% of the traditional police use the most traditional and old school form of transport ever, called feet.....because they don't even own a hot rod.....
Here's an underhood pic of the 62-63 Olds Jetfire
They had 10-1 compression and 5 lbs boost, detonation was a problem so I hear.
Go for it! You sound like you know what you are doing. Dress it with old looking flanged connections and etc, but make the hardware something that works.
Don't be afraid of a draw through, and don't be afraid of boost without an intercooler. An intercooler will make more power through more charge density but it's not necessary. I built a 108 CI HD Shovelhead with a homebrew turbo setup over 20 years ago that makes 30 psi on gasoline with draw though and no intercooler and it lives. Kick start street ridden, and 9.30s at the strip. Lower compression than with an intercooler is the ticket, I run 7-1. A draw through setup cools the intake charge a little because the fuel is vaporizing in the ducting - alcohol especially so. And put it on a big motor so you have good driveability with no boost, when the turbo hits you'll light the tires.
Low levels of boost make a turbo a waste of effort, manufacturers put turbos on small motors then have to keep the compression up too high because the tiny motor is a dog with no compression, and thus can't add any boost. That's one reason factory turbos have a bad reputation.
Well, in 1978, when I was just a kid, I built a Twin (Schwitzer) Turbocharged 340, Dodge Dart. It was a "draw through" system using an 800cfm Holley and 18lbs of boost. We built a plenum set-up kinda like the Roto Master or Accell shown previously with a valve that was open w/o boost allowing quick starting and low-end torque. When boost was present it would close. Worked for about (3) WOT and total detonation!! The valve slammed shut so hard it broke it off sending aluminum pieces through the engine like a Grenade full of aluminum. It was a sound that was hard to put into words!!! That idea and a set of pistons were scraped. A complete rebuild, the hole where the valve was welded shut and WOW, it worked again. Played around with primary and secondary jets and power valves (plugged that too) and finally gave up on the 800 and went to a 780. Finally it worked! Ran good on the street and ran it's best of 9.99 before again "blowing up"! One more re-build, added a simple water injection system and again ran great. All of this without an (what's an intercooler) intercooler. Learned a lot and still learning. Have had several other turbo projects but to date, the 1<SUP>st</SUP> was the most memorable.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Starting a new one. 57 Ford Courier Gasser. A 250 Aussie Inline with a Schwitzer (Borg Warner) Turbo, E.F.I. and an Intercooler!. More to come.<o></o>
JMHO a homebuilt turbo setup is super freaking cool.
Someday I'd like to build one myself.
I think the Chicken Hawk was always turbos. Ted continues to race Studebakers in the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags. Those have Paxtons on them.
LS 1 .... turbo! Do whatever you want to do.
Any more pics of Turbo setups?
Some early pics of mine It is actualy starts and runs now. Just have few more things to work out.
Being a turbo guy, car guy, hot rod guy, whatever you want to call someone that just enjoys things with wheels in a motor I find all these topics funny. Lots of people like to think their way in building a car is the only way that is "correct".
Build what you feel, and what you want unless you are doing it for a customer then you build what he/she wants and smile.
Being an owner of a twin turbo small block chevy in a GMC typhoon, having driven and tuned more syclones/typhoons than I can remember at this point I find turbo Lag a funny topic brought up by those that either have never driven a properly setup turbo car, or have no clue.
The fact is if you are making power in a turbo, lag is your best friend. 2wd rodsters, sedans, even shoebox type cars with a properly setup turbo you will have a difficult time trying to contain the smoke inside the tires. If it rains, forget it.
At 5psi on my typhoon, 350sbc and all wheel drive I get nervous in the rain. I would need some happy pills to feel comfortable with that motor in a 2wd 32 ford and I wouldn't even consider my motor that much built up. (~550hp 700ft lbs torque).
Again build what you feel and what will put a smile on your face, life is too short to worry about what everybody else thinks of you or your car.
Exactly, I chuckle to myself every time I hear some one say they make huge power numbers and have no lag at all. In reality most modern turbos have very little lag to them but it's boost threshold that gets mistakenly labeled as lag. Mine comes in at about 3K RPM and makes full boost by 4K RPM. Having the threshold that high makes it so easy to drive in adverse conditions, even with drag radials and a manual trans.
Yup. I have built several OT turbocharged V8 cars. My 55' is getting a twin turbo'd 460ci BBC. It will be a blow through setup, intercooled, and alky injected. Very mild setup that should make about 800hp and be into boost by 2500rpm.
Look at this...
If I remember correctly, when the Mallicoat twin turbo 'Cuda started really competing with the supercharged cars they ruled turbos out of use for competition. At least, I remember reading that somewhere.
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