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Working with brass

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mindover, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    This shows how smooth the panel can be made just by planishing. This section is ready to join to the other half of the top section at this stage.

    [​IMG]

    David
     
  2. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Here are the two halves of the top section formed, trimmed and clamped to the jig. ready to weld together.

    [​IMG]

    David
     
  3. stubbsrodandcustom
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 800

    stubbsrodandcustom
    Member
    from Spring tx

    True art form.... 2 thumbs up Mindover
     
  4. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    The sides are formed from the blanks shown earlier. These are lightly wheeled, this is the only wheeling involved. I could make them with just hand tools. The top edge of the panel is hollowed on the stump and planished

    [​IMG]

    David
     
  5. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England


    Thanks for looking guys!.


    David
     
  6. Roupe
    Joined: Feb 11, 2006
    Posts: 719

    Roupe
    Member

    You are a true craftsman. Keep the posts coming. Thanks
     
  7. langy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,735

    langy
    Member Emeritus

    Excellent work to your usual high standard Dave, Keep it coming please
     
  8. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Cheers Roupe, how do you live where its that cold? I couldn't bare it.

    Thanks steve (Langy)

    No-one likes the thread enough to give it even one star though?. LOL.

    Here is a bit more...

    With the hollowing done I dress the sides on the stake using the flipper (slapper for you Americans)

    [​IMG]

    Here is the sides on the Jig...

    [​IMG]

    I don't fuss with them too much at this stage 'cos they will need more work later.

    David
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  9. fiverman
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 1

    fiverman
    Member
    from oregon

    OK I figured out how to give you the stars! absolutely amazing what years of experience and high standards can produce isn't it. I'm just starting to restore
    a 1943 Dodge WC-53 Military Carryall and have been looking for all the metal info I possibly can. Thanks so much for sharing!!!
     
  10. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    fiverman You are welcome, thanks for the stars and for making your first post ever in my thread!:cool: Check out my youtube footage I think you will find it interesting.

    David
     
  11. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Claymore Thanks! I will post a bit more shortly.

    David
     
  12. Looks great David keep it coming!!! Thanks for taking the time to post this.
     
  13. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    I use Oxy acetylene welding to join the sections of the shells. I tack the sections on the jig. This is not the technique I use for any other metal. I don't use clamps at all when I tack steel or aluminium. Its late here now but I will give the details about welding the brass as soon as possible.

    [​IMG]

    David
     
  14. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Welding brass is very difficult, not so much the actual joining but because brass is zinc and copper. Zinc has a lower melting point than brass the zinc melts and evaporates before the copper has fully melted. This leaves pin holes. In fact if the flame is not set right the sections will not join and the metal looks like honeycomb. It is quite a lot of work to get joints that are metal finished and free of pinholes.

    Welding brass is not straightforward. You need an oxidising flame to weld it. I show how to set up the torch on my youtube footage. I have always used pre-fluxed rods but this does not give a perfect colour match which does not matter for the shells I make because they are chrome finished. I have always been able to metal finish the parts which is more important.

    The parts are tacked together at regular intervals..

    [​IMG]

    Then seam welded- The problem with welding brass is that brass is made up of copper and zinc, the zinc melts at a lower temperature than the copper and leaves holes in the surface of the joint. This is called volatilization.

    The welds I get are never very neat but they are going to be ground off anyway. The weld pool seems to have a life of its own. I try to have a fair bit of build so that any porosity is in the bead of the weld and will be ground off, this does not always work but it prevents too many pinholes.

    [​IMG]


    David
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  15. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Sorry the photos did not show up I have fixed it now.

    David
     
  16. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Inside...

    [​IMG]

    David
     
  17. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    I use a four and a half inch grinder with a grinding stone to take the bulk of the weld off before I do any more to the shell. I use an air grinder with a well warn grinding disc to remove most of the weld from the inside so that I can get the section to sit on the jig accurately before I join any more sections.

    David
     
  18. cactus1
    Joined: Apr 10, 2006
    Posts: 7,992

    cactus1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  19. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Thanks Cactus1.

    Sorry about this being a bit randomly place but here is a photo I just found of the SS100 body part done - before the wings and bonnet (hood) were fitted.

    I have done about six of these bodies over the years and made probably a dozen sets of wings. The work on this body was done between James (who works for me) and myself.

    [​IMG]

    These cars were built just pre war and were very light and quite fast. (100 MPH hence SS100) They were a sort of factory hot rod, The chassis was a one off but the engine was actually made by Standard cars and then hotted up by adding a OHV conversion. The war stopped production so there was not many of them produced in the first place and fewer survive. That is one of the reasons why there is a demand for replicas.

    David
     
  20. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Next the sections are marked and trimmed then each is welded to the next.

    The photo below shows all the sections in place on the jig...

    [​IMG]

    David
     
  21. dartracer
    Joined: Apr 18, 2009
    Posts: 105

    dartracer
    Member

    WOW, your work is amazimg.
     
  22. nailhead terry
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,356

    nailhead terry
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Your workmanship is awsome thanks for the details !!
     
  23. Motornoggin1
    Joined: May 24, 2011
    Posts: 169

    Motornoggin1
    Member

    Once again, I'm left in complete amazement at the talant around here.
     
  24. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 22,533

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Amazing work, I also like the subtile way you advertize your shop in every photo, how is that done?
     
  25. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    The37Kid. Its a watermark more to prevent people using the photos as their own for whatever reason than to advertise my workshop. I used photoshop to remove the background from my logo. I can't remember the name of the program I used to put it on the photos but its a free download and I will tell you next time I am on the computer at work where I have it.

    David
     
  26. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    I smooth the welds inside and out before I begin to planish the radiator shell.

    [​IMG]

    Next I put the rebate around the outer edge of the shell with a swager (beader). this caused a lot of distortion to the shell and the whole thing is ready to hand finish.

    If I don't have any interruptions I can make all the sections and have them welded together in a day. It then takes me two days to dress, file and sand the shell to finish it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
  27. airnwater
    Joined: Dec 31, 2006
    Posts: 39

    airnwater
    Member

    Very nice work , very interesting to see some of the steps involved

    You mention pre fluxed rods ,are these silicone bronze ?

    Also ,what size nozzle / gas pressures do you find best for the grille shell &
    also the '32 hood window frame earlier ?

    Would you see anything wrong with using silver solder vs welding for the window frame ?

    Thanks
     
  28. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Silver solder would work. I just prefer to use welding. I now use silicon bronze rods and 'old' flux 'cos the new one does not work. Its fine for brazing but the welds cracked. I can't tell you the size of nozzle because US and UK tip sizes are different,

    David
     
  29. leon renaud
    Joined: Nov 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,933

    leon renaud
    Member
    from N.E. Ct.

    Do you think the nozzle size should match the material thickness? I was taught that when gas welding the tip and filler rod should be as close to the material thickness as you can get.with your obvious building skills I'd like to hear how you select your tips.
     
  30. airnwater
    Joined: Dec 31, 2006
    Posts: 39

    airnwater
    Member


    Thanks for that information .

    I'm next door to the UK ! , so would actually use same nozzle sizes , what sizes do you recommend for the sheet brass & the heavier section as in the window frame ?
    Also recommendations on gas pressures would also be interesting.
    Interesting you're using flux with the prefluxed silicone bronze rods , Any more details on the flux make / type ?
     

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