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Wishbones - How did Ford make them?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tjm73, Feb 20, 2006.

  1. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,397

    tjm73
    Member

    I've been trying to find some info on how Ford produced their wishbones. I've had very little luck other than to piece together that they forged center "Y's" (for lack of the proper term) and the ends that attach to the axles which then were welded into the tubes. What I'm trying to determine is how the tubes were formed.

    Are they 2 wedged U channels welded together? Or are they a single sheet stamped/formed into a tube and seam welded?
     
  2. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,440

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    I'm only seeing one weld so my money is on them being wrought from a single piece.
     
  3. Mad-Lad
    Joined: Jul 2, 2005
    Posts: 734

    Mad-Lad
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    from California

    Rolled steel.
     
  4. ProEnfo
    Joined: Sep 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,498

    ProEnfo
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    from Motown

    ..and not to hijack the thread, but on the same topic... how were the V8-60 axles formed?

    Thanks
    CC
     

  5. Harms Way
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 6,869

    Harms Way
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    Try to stay with me on this as I ain't sure I can "Splain" it so you can picture it in your head,

    The blank was cut out of flat steel,... then the blank was placed in a die that bent the edges of the blank ( The two surfaces that are welded together ).
    Then it was put into a forming die,.... the blank was drawn down into the die by a mandrel die. and as it was drawn fully into the die it was resistance welded by machine, the mandrel withdrawn and the part kicked out. all done by machine.

    want to know the rest of the procedure ?
     
  6. Digger_Dave
    Joined: Apr 10, 2001
    Posts: 2,517

    Digger_Dave
    Member

    Saw an old Ford film the other day.

    A piece of flat stock - cut so the "rolled" finished product came out the right size - was heated and placed in a die that rolled the edges around to meet.
    Then the piece passed under a welding machine that welded the seam.

    The frorged steel ends - the axle boss and the pivot ball - were then inserted and welded. (the ends were held in a jig)

    The flat piece when cut to size is wider on the axle boss end and tapers down to the pivot ball end. The engineers at Ford did some fancy design on parts like the wishbones.
     
  7. yes please:)
     
  8. Harms Way
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 6,869

    Harms Way
    Member

    That was actually kind of a retorical question,:),......But it was finished in a fixture ( just like Digger-Dave said) the wrist and pivot ball were forged, the heated tube was pressed over the ends, this was done in the fixture and again resistance welded by machine,......... I must have seen the old movie that Dave seen which backed up the first hand accounts that a old friend of mine that use to build these told me,........ hope this helps.
     
  9. striper
    Joined: Mar 22, 2005
    Posts: 4,498

    striper
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    S'pose it was the same process (sort of) but I can't quite see how the 46-48 bones would have been done. Was the kick up bent in post welding?

    I just wonder because if you cut along the weld seam and tried tolay them out flat, they wouldn't want to go because of the bend in them.

    Good post. I had also wondered about this and am still not quite satisfied.

    Pete
     
  10. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    The '48 radius rod is certainly an interesting question...Two stepped flat sections?? Howinhell did the middle section get shaped??

    Ford was a leader and innovator in machine welding and fabrication in general.
    Model A gas tanks were welded with mercury submerged arc--I don't begin to understand that--from terneplate.
    Some Model A banjo housings started life as channel steel bent into a circle and fused, and some ring gears were made from straight bar stock formed into a circle! And study any '28-48 axle tube some time.
     
  11. Harms Way
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 6,869

    Harms Way
    Member

    Striper & Bruce,

    Your right, the step section in the 48 wishbone raises some interesting questions. it could have been formed after the initial fabrication process ( but that is a guess at best ). And old Quino didn't work in the factory after the war.( plus he's dead so I can't ask him ) so I don't have any idea on this for sure
     
  12. butch27
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 2,847

    butch27
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    It would be nice if someone reproduced those old wishbones shape for the nostalgia rods, only thicker ( they were not very thick metal).
     
  13. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 6,112

    A Boner
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    Some guy was showing a prototype tapered Ford style repro, in the swap meet at the L.A. Roadster show last year. I didn't get his contact info, as I thought they were too pricey.

    Maybe someone else did.
     
  14. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Oval tubing and cast end fittings for making custom radius rods used to be available from the Ford specialties people in Rosemead, California under the PSI label. I heard somewhere the patterns and such have been sold recently.
    Find Elmo--he probably knows.
     
  15. snap too
    Joined: Dec 13, 2005
    Posts: 259

    snap too
    Member
    from lost wages

    One fabricator , Don Puhto of Industrial Metalcraft, Las Vegas is doing prototypes for So Cal , he also does the A-bone rear crossmember and builds a Yoder hammer replica .
     
  16. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    The PSI ones, working from memory, were quite a good system. They offered the oval tubing by length, ends to mount at front perches, ends to take tie rod threads, and castings replicating the rear of '35-6 type rear rods. There were probably other components for the various Ford and T-bucket arrangements up front, but I don't remember. Their main disadvantage was that the tubing for a modular system like this couldn't be made tapered, so they looked heavier than Ford parts.
     
  17. Digger_Dave
    Joined: Apr 10, 2001
    Posts: 2,517

    Digger_Dave
    Member

    Actually the "kick" was easy. They started as a piece of flat stock. Then it was heated and forced into the bottom of a die with the "kick"; then the second die set rolled the edges over.

    Ford had some damn smart engineers and some VERY BIG die presses!

    Someone asked about axles. They were "drop forged" from a "billet";
    (and you thought this was a NEW term!)
    of RED HOT Vandium steel in ONE WHACK! on one of the largest drop forge presses in the world. (custom built for Ford)
    The changes in models (axles) was just done by changing dies.

    Ford had more specialized tooling than any other company in the world.
     
  18. AV8-Rider
    Joined: Jan 31, 2002
    Posts: 909

    AV8-Rider
    Member



    klazurfer mentioned to me the other day, that there where a post on here with some info on this. I where not able to find it. Think it started with someone asking a bout some wichbone pieces he had found. Not beeing complete.

    anyone.
    and ask Elmo as Bruce said. He is the nicest and most helpfull.

    Paul
     
  19. I heard that Ford and other big 3 automakers used wire feed welders in the plants as early as 1935...with no gas!
    Anyone add to or contradict that story?
    [HAVE YOU LOOKED THOSE RADIUS ROD WELDS OVER CLOSELY?]some "skipping" is evident on some of the different ones I have noticed.
     
  20. Digger_Dave
    Joined: Apr 10, 2001
    Posts: 2,517

    Digger_Dave
    Member

    Your right, NO gas!

    What they did do, was place POWDERED FLUX over the joint as it was being welded by a trough just in front of the weld point. (not much different than todays submerged flux arc welding)

    The "skipping" or voids in the welds of the wishbones were usually caused when the wire feed supply reel ran out; and a new reel was started. (especially on a Friday! ) Testing of the radius rods showed that minor "voids" in the weld didn't compromise strength so they were used in production.
     
  21. Elmo Rodge
    Joined: May 12, 2002
    Posts: 2,320

    Elmo Rodge
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    I will check with Jim regarding availabilty of PSI pieces. I do know that he no longer carries the oval tubing. I still believe that the judicious squishing of some seamless tubing would offer up good result. Wayno
     
  22. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,397

    tjm73
    Member

    I never expected so much great information from what I thought was a fairly basic question. Awesome. :D
     
  23. Roadsters.com
    Joined: Apr 9, 2002
    Posts: 1,783

    Roadsters.com
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  24. Elmo Rodge
    Joined: May 12, 2002
    Posts: 2,320

    Elmo Rodge
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    The PSI stuff is in limbo (Unavailable) during the sale of that portion of the company. It is my understanding that the fellow purchasing it wants to have it ready for the LA Roadsters Fathers Day show. Wayno
     
  25. Rem
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,256

    Rem
    Member

    OK, this is a very old thread, but has anyone got a link to the film of their manufacture mentioned by Digger Dave? That's assuming it's out there online somewhere?

    I'm puzzled by how the tubes are welded to the rear yoke, as looking inside the end of cut ones there seems to be residue of molten metal, suggesting the tubes are located inside the hollow ends of the yoke and not pushed over the yoke and welded.
     
    The37Kid likes this.

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