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Wisconsin anti old vehicle legislation pending

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Curt R, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. The Wis Dept of Transportation PROPOSES an order to create ch. TRANS 123, relating to registration of non-standard vehicles. The focus appears to be pre 1968 vehicles.

    JULY 29, 2009
    4802 Sheboygan Ave
    Madison, WI.

    This proposal contains wording
    "vehicles manufactured before 1968"
    any legislation or rule with that wording demands a close look. On the surface the proposal appears non threatening. The fact that, the Dept wants to create a rule that allows them to refuse to register your pre 1968 non standard vehicle at their discretion, appears as a new avenue to legislate older vehicles from being on the road or ever being registered and licensed to be on the road.

    We need a lot of people at the hearing. This will show that there is a lot of interest in the proposal. We can listen to their explanation and then determine our course of action.
    Fellow Wisconsinites, call your local representative, in the Wisconsin legislature, and express your opposition to this proposal and tell them that Wisconsin vehicle enthusiasts
    will be looking at the proposal, closely, and will make any and all attempts to protect our cars and interests. To find your local state government rep call toll free 1-800-362-9472.

    I will post to this thread any new or important info.

    I am not looking for numerous posts complaining about government, politics, law enforcement etc. Take the time and check your states pending legislation. Wis folks spread the info, call your local rep, get pro active. Wis car clubs it's time, too.
  2. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,404



    This can not be allowed.
  3. Alex Yohnk
    Joined: Sep 7, 2005
    Posts: 828

    Alex Yohnk

    the peoples republic of madison is at it again.............jeesh...with all the tax dollars they make off of specialty cars, you'd think they'd leave that revenue alone.

    I'll start making phone calls now.
  4. chadman
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 224

    from illinois

    I hate people and goverment! If alot of people don't start getting together to fight this crap, then it will be nationwide soon! This is why we need people with brains to run for office and get this tree hugging faggets out! They don't have a clue about anything except getting themselves better off for there retirement!

  5. They drove farm tractors to D.C. Why not hot rods to Madison? Protest time.
  6. Ole Pork
    Joined: Sep 4, 2006
    Posts: 581

    Ole Pork

    Yeah, and in 1978 we blitzed the chambers(and Mad city) with bikes to get the helmet law repealed. If there is enough against it ,they WILL act. They want to stay in office...............
  7. I'm glad I live in Montana but I didn't expect that from WI.

    Pretty soon we will all be regulated into new electric cars with no rust.

  8. Alex Yohnk
    Joined: Sep 7, 2005
    Posts: 828

    Alex Yohnk

    wow. just read the proposal. there's a lot left to interpretation there.

    Like this one: "The proposed rule states that the Department shall register any vehicle that was manufactured before 1968. The vehicle may be subject to equipment requirements under Ch. 347, Stats., and registration requirements under s. 341.268, Stats., regarding homemade and replica vehicles."

    Does that mean the "hobbyist laws" will be repealled?
  9. Alex Yohnk
    Joined: Sep 7, 2005
    Posts: 828

    Alex Yohnk

    Summary of factual data and analytical methodologies used and how the related findings support the regulatory approach chosen: The Department had for several years followed a policy interpreting s. 341.10(6), Stats., which prohibits the Department from registering off-road vehicles that do not meet the requirements of s. 114 of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. This Department policy does not define “off-road” vehicles but essentially refuses to register for on-road use any vehicle that does not meet federal on-road safety and equipment standards.
    The Department concluded that the statutory provision requires Wisconsin to conform to federal regulations. The Department has revised its policy to conform to federal interpretations, and this rule codifies the current Department policy. The Department also addresses issues that were raised in a recent WDOA Division of Hearings and Appeals administrative hearing regarding the Department’s cancellation of registration of imported military vehicles made after 1967. Vehicle Owned by Paul Underwood, Case TR-08-0027 (Sept. 18, 2008).

    SO....where are we going with this DOT??
  10. I would have put this in my earlier post but I didn't have time before a meeting.

    I'm an accountant with a municipality, its always been about money and always will be about money! To be more specific, TAX REVENUE.

    Being forced to purchase newer vehicles, increases the sales tax (some states), increases license taxes and "the other end" the business tax revenue from the sales and insurance, etc..

    Additionally, most if not all state DOT's have done projections on how much of their resources/man hours/equip hours are taken up dealing with "old" vehicles, broken down, abandoned, managing the impound lot, paperwork for impound sales etc.. No one leaves a new Camry beside the highway, those owners all have full coverage including towing since full coverage is required if the bank owns your vehicle.

    Legislators mantra - If it doesn't make money, it doesn't make it to the floor (for a vote)

    I don't agree with the means or the end, but it is a fact that if you follow the revenue you find the reason.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  11. Tetanus
    Joined: May 20, 2007
    Posts: 239


    I couldnt get link to work.but just google WI TRANS 123. Sounds like there going after 1968 up off road(millitary) and imports without proper dot safety stuff.what a bunch of crap.dont they have anything better to do.
  12. yellow wagon
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 612

    yellow wagon
    from WI

    yea it does seem like its mostly for post 68 stuff that doesn't meet the NHTSA regs. I am still quite nervous about this.
  13. Fordguy78
    Joined: Apr 2, 2009
    Posts: 558


    This is like the early days of Hot Rodding all over again. Hot Rods lived back then, they'll live today we just need to fight for our right to drive old cars.
  14. bobwop
    Joined: Jan 13, 2008
    Posts: 6,101


    why drive an old car, we just ordered up high speed trains to the tune of $49MM
  15. havi
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,877


    Seems to me it's a dig against anything non-manufacturer built post 1968. (a stretch could be home built rat-rods) So attempting to obtain a title for a constructed vehicle post 1968 would be difficult at best. It would have to meet NHTSA standards such as seatbelts, frame structures/dimensions etc... Military off-road vehicles are what it may be aimed at, but I'm sure the interpretation could be skewed to include anything that wasn't built by a manufacturer.

    Here's a segment from the Trans 123 Scope: "DESCRIPTION OF ALL OF THE ENTITIES THAT MAY BE AFFECTED BY THE
    Wisconsin citizens and businesses who apply to register in Wisconsin vehicles that
    were manufactured after 1968 for other than the US on-road market will be affected by
    the rule. In addition, collectors of vehicles that are non-standard vehicles will be
    affected. Motor vehicle dealers and vehicle importers will be affected."
  16. yule16met
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 623


    And those trains don't go anywere in WI!!!! They are meant to go to Chicago from Milwakee. He boasts that it will create about 80 jobs. Build them in WI and don't buy them from Spain if u cared about jobs. 49Mil would go a long ways.
  17. yellow wagon
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 612

    yellow wagon
    from WI

    this proposal is scary because its not well defined. I wouldn't "assume" they have our best interest in mind
  18. silvertonguedevil
    Joined: Mar 1, 2009
    Posts: 166

    from Vale, OR

    I see what you're saying here but at the same time, when was the last time you saw a deserted '57 Chevy? The cars you see stranded are the '84 LTD's and the beat-up '93 Civics. Most anything pre-68 is an old car and has to be maintained and taken care of to a certain extent to be able to even be on the road to begin with. The only pre-68 car that I could imagine that would be abandoned would maybe be a Chevy or Ford pickup truck. And as far as that goes, I think anything pre-68 that was dropped off or abandoned would have NO problem finding a home. The state could auction this vehicle off or charge a certain "fee" to have it bailed out. I'm not so sure that it's a matter of revenue or money to the state rather than it's a pollution thing. They think that if they go after the "big polluters" that they'll be heroes in general publics eyes. They don't realize that 1)There's not enough of these cars on the road to make a real difference and 2)A nicely tuned/nicely running 302 in a '68 Mustang will put out less pollutents than a run-into-the-mud '98 Camry.

    It's early in the morning and maybe I'm not making sense but hopefully it sorta does:confused:
  19. yellow wagon
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 612

    yellow wagon
    from WI

    sent the proposal on to our local news radio guys (Sykes and Belling) this morning in the hopes it can get some airtime today
  20. bustedlifter
    Joined: Jun 26, 2005
    Posts: 756


  21. jokerjason
    Joined: Oct 18, 2006
    Posts: 356


    Damn, seems to be all over the place, just fuckin leave the car guys and gals alone, go after the crack dealers and swindlers.....oh shoot, I forgot, some of them work in those kind of offices!!! See ya JOKER JASON.
  22. SEMA didn't help the last time... it was Curt's initiative to involve all the Wisconsin Car Clubs into the "Modified Vehicle Enthusiast Group" to fight bad legislation right on the Capitol steps!!!

    I had my thread deleted last night on this very subject because it was claimed that it was "OFF TOPIC"... on the contrary this is very "ON TOPIC" and needs to be addressed on boards like this not only in Wisconsin... but in other States as well!

    What can happen here... can and will happen elsewhere!

    Our state thrives on "Vague and Ambiguous" laws that are written and passed in the middle of the NIGHT!!!"

    Really... there are more "midnight votes" than ever before so that the opposing voices will not be heard....!

    Here's the email I received... and remember... I've been through this before and recognize a "REAL THREAT"!

    Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:08 AM
    Subject: WI seeks to ban collector vehicles as well as historic military vehicles- THIS IS REAL!!!

    Trans 123 seek remove from usage many vehicles currently operated legally and safely in WI due to being classified as NON CONFORMING to a 1968 vehicle safety act. The first target of this proposed legislation is Historic Military Vehicles (HMV). Please help us continue to honor and memorized the veterans who used these vehicles my allowing them to "keep rolling" in parades such as the 4th of July parades, Veterans Day parades, events to raise funds at VFW, American Legion post, other civic events state wide.
    This does NOT stop at HMVs it targets many of the "custom" cars that are currently operated, like seeing the 57's Chevys, custom mustangs, kit cars etc? Well these are targeted also as they could be deemed "NON CONFORMING".


    Some of you already know that the State DOT has proposed a new law that eliminates many Historic Military Vehicles from WI. I’m sending this out to everyone we know and asking (begging) you and your fellow collectors to get involved!!!! Please pass this on to every car and truck collector you know. Tell the veterans groups we parade with, Tell the schools we display for, tell the municipal parade organizers we support.

    Briefly, the WI DOT has issued a proposal called “Trans 123”. It seeks to restrict or eliminate specialty and collector vehicles from WI roads.
    We are urging everyone with an interest in the old car hobby to attend the hearing next Wed in Madison and to call their legislators to oppose Trans 123 in its current format.
    Collectors with pre 1968 vehicles need to help too. This will BAN many collector and hobbyist vehicles.
    Call your legislators and tell them we oppose the Trans 123 proposal for four reasons.
    1)It seeks to define ANY vehicle made after 1968 that is not 100% compliant with the NHTSA, as designed for “off road” only. This is too broad and will eliminate many collector vehicles in the Hobbyist or Historic Military vehicle groups.
    2)The proposal is far too broad and seeks to provide a single broad definition that affects too many collector situations
    3)The proposal wording is very difficult to read or understand.
    4)The proposal seeks to provide for public safety, but bans many post 1968 vehicles including Historic Military vehicles. These HMV’s have been legally registered and operated by collectors in WI since 1968 with no significant traffic safety issues that would support any call by the public to ban them.
    There is a hearing on this NEXT WEEK WEDNESDAY 7/29/2009 in Madison see the attached.. they are trying to slide this in under the radar..!!!

    Here is the link to the details of the proposal and the hearing.
    Relating to Grounds for Refusing Registration:
    Don' know who your Representitives are?
    Call Toll-1-800-362-9472 to find out or
    You can also search on WI TRANS 123 for more information.

    Please get the word out. We need to at least get this slowed down and let more people have input. Call your legislators and get them involved. Tell them we need their help to voice opposition to this rule for the 4 reasons.

    10:00 AM JULY 29, 2009. Room 254
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  23. I was looking for that thread again last night and couldn't find it...never should have been deleted. This is SERIOUS stuff!!!!!!:mad:

  24. It got deleted because of some asshat repo man from new jersey being a racist. He got banned from the Hamb shortly thereafter. It was not anyone complaining about it being off topic unless thats what the mods said to you. JLOW was the punks name.-Weeks

  25. PBR1844
    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 89


    Ill drive my 41 ford to madison, PBR and 45 in hand ready to debate. They're not taking my hotrod off the road. No fuckin way.
  26. Alex Yohnk
    Joined: Sep 7, 2005
    Posts: 828

    Alex Yohnk

    Very few laws aimed at one group of people or cars usually stay restricted to the intended purpose. They usually get used by lawyers, judges, and police officers to obtain desired results in similar casses, whether related to the specific law or not.

    That's the problem with this law.

    Curt and the boys made sure that we can build a hot rod without having to comply with the safety and equipment standards of the present day, but with in reason, we can build a hot rod to the safety and equipment standards that were on the books at the time of original manufacture.

    This law, the way that it reads, and also, some "under-ground" info which may or may not be rumors (that's why I won't repeat it until I confirm it), seems like it is being proposed to fill in what many State Troopers, inspectors, and DOT folks think is a "loop hole" in the equipment laws for "hobbyist" registration; a loop hole that hot rodders use to get away with running fenderless, chopped, newer motor, etc.

    This could be used to re-inerprit the current trans chap. 305
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2009
  28. Jaker
    Joined: Jan 23, 2003
    Posts: 869


    maybe you should poor the PBR into a sippy cup, just to be safe....

    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,623

    Alliance Vendor


    This is close to home.
  30. Someone should point out all the sales tax revenue from the sales of parts for old cars that will simply go away should this become law. With an old car, you might buy things every week or every month for it, if even just to change the oil. With a new car, a lot of them come with the servicing included, so you pay one sales tax fee one time. Someone aught to do the math and see which one actually nets more revenue. Especially since a good percentage of people with collector vehicles also have a newer car to run as a daily or in the winter.

    It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see this is another half-baked pile of crap that when actually thought through will cost them more money than it generates. And that may be the best way to attack it.

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