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Hot Rods Wiring

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by FAKKY, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    ok guys - school me a little on wiring. NEVER done it.

    I'll be starting to rewire a 57 truck here soon using the EZ 21 kit. Obviously it comes with few/no connectors being the cheaper of the kits.
    You also have various connection types, delphi, weatherpack, packard 56, barrell, bullet etc.

    So questions like

    1) How many different crimpers will I want. Will a set with multi-die work ok ? OR better with 2 regaular sets ?
    https://www.amazon.com/Astro-9477-P...=1496771632&sr=8-7&keywords=auto+wire+crimper

    2) What terminals and connectors should I buy in advance.
    I dont want to resuse anything generally and make sure its all IP67 rated and covered in sheathing.

    3) What issues likely to hit. Apparently the EZ kit and most kits dont come with grounding wires ....... so do you typically have to buy that also ........ common ground between components ? etc rear brake lights just share 1 common ground ?

    4) Likely issues going to hit with old connections on

    5) If I want to keep the stock ignition system (key in dash - foot peddle to engage starter) any links/tips on how thats typically done.

    6) How to know when you should use the body harness for a component versus the ECM harness. eg Lets say I use a oil pressure unit of some variety. I assume I would use the body harness wiring back to gauges if all it is used for is the gauge. But if ECM requries it ....... then use the ECM harness ..... but then still need to feed gauge signal also ?

    etc
     
    sjm1340 likes this.
  2. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,691

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You've left out critical info like 57 what? What engine & trans. When you say ECM that opens a whole can of worms a some systems need engine inpots to operate properly.

    Sent from my SM-G550T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    ECM? you lost me!

    Grounds on old trucks are generally through the body and chassis. There is usually a ground strap connecting the body to the chassis, somewhere. If there isn't one, then install one.

    IP67 is kind of overkill for most of our old stuff. And there's no way we can know what terminals/connectors you'll need, since you didn't list all the parts you are using. You said it's a 57 truck, but it could be a Chevy, or a Ford, or a Dodge, or ???? And we don't know if it has the original light switch, gauges, etc.

    The modern computer stuff should have it's own grounds in the harness. But that's pretty far off topic for this place
     
  4. mcsfabrication
    Joined: Nov 26, 2006
    Posts: 960

    mcsfabrication
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You will normally be able to figure out as you go. Keep each circuit separate. Take your time. The kit manufacturer is going to be your best source of adapting their kit to your specific application. Don't be shy, ask them. Get decent connectors, use heat shrink. As far as the connectors go, you cannot say best and cheapest in the same sentence.
     

  5. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,180

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Painless gives you explanations on how their wiring is supposed to install.
     
  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,676

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Echo Chamber Muffler.
     
    Nailhead Jason and squirrel like this.
  7. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    Hi
    Yep didnt go painless - went with EZ.
    Havent heard back from kit manufactuer in the two emails I sent so far. :)

    57 Chevy Panel but I will be putting in a LS. I didn't mention that specifically as I know its not what HAMB is about ...... but I still like coming here for the non LS questions ..... so really just more generally.

    Do the stock 57 headlights/tailights use specific terminals - eg packard - should I buy new ones etc ?
    If Im making a join ..
    Recommendation on crimpers ?

    The kit comes with flashers I think. How do they typically get wired up for left and right signals.......
    http://www.ezwiring.com/store/viewitem.php?productid=4

    Does one flasher relay typically handle both left/right circuit ?

    what do you guys do for security - since dont have much to secure. Meaning to prevent someone cutting wires and jumping it etc
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  8. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    57 Chevy Panel.
    Orignal Column, switches and lights (as far as I know)
     
  9. ffr1222k
    Joined: Nov 5, 2009
    Posts: 1,180

    ffr1222k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you indeed are using an ECM then there would be another temp sensor for the water temp for the ECM.
     
  10. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    I put a reproduction harness in my late 50s chevy trucks, it plugs right in to the lights, switches, gauges, etc. The universal harness is good if you're adding a lot of add on accessories, but the original design works better for the existing original parts.

    The old trucks use Packard 56 terminals for most connections. The fuel and temp gauges use round pins, which take a special connector.

    You can cheat and use modern universal 1/4" spade terminals for many of the original parts.
     
  11. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    Guess the short answer is going to have to pull the lights and gauge cluster to determine how solid they look to determine what connectors I need. ?? Sounds like. If reuse OEM then some packard 56. If not ...... then whatever comes with the new lights/gauges etc ?

    Sound right ?

    So when you wire in an accessory - you take the power/signal wire to it ...... and then "generally" ground directly off it to the frame as the frame/engine/cab are grounded . Meaning - all grounds for most part will run to closet metal frame/cab nearby .....directly from THAT accessory. So lots of 2 ft runs of ground wire.
     
  12. The first thing you need to do is decide what type of connectors you're going to use; uninsulated open barrel (generally known as 'Packard' type) or closed barrel. I won't use ANY insulated terminal as they usually lack strain relief and you WON'T get a 100% crimp. The advantage of open barrel is they have built-in strain relief, but they can be finicky to get crimped right (even with the right crimper) and are generally more expensive than closed barrel. Closed barrel is more 'generic', is pretty much idiot-proof to crimp with the right crimper (and I'll note that the crimper shown isn't the right one), usually cheaper, and has better mechanical strength. You will have to install strain relief though; a short length of shrink tube will do it.

    If you get into specialty connectors (like AMP/Tyco, GM Weatherpac, or Deutsch), you'll need the specialty crimper designed for those.

    For a discussion of 'issues', take some time and read this: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/wiring-101.843579/

    Keep in mind that no matter how 'EZ' or 'Painless' the vendor describes their product unless it's an exact reproduction of an OEM harness, it'll be fairly generic and will require that YOU do your homework. Wiring diagrams for the project and donor cars (if used) will be extremely helpful. If available, 'unit repair' diagrams (for each 'system' rather than the large 'main' diagram) will be much easier to follow. The more pre-planning you do, the easier the job will go.
     
    pat59 likes this.
  13. AZbent
    Joined: Nov 26, 2011
    Posts: 272

    AZbent
    Member

    Just like crazy Steve said, break it down into smaller sections. Learn about each section. The overall wiring diagram will lose you in a second. small sections are your friend. For your grounds, use wire that is the same gauge size or up on size. Don't go to a smaller size, that will just cause problems down the road.
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    Most accessories ground through their housing...some have a separate ground wire that needs to be connected to solid, clean metal that is connected solidly and cleanly to the main grounded parts of the truck (the body and the frame). In other works, we usually don't worry about grounds at all, until something doesn't work right!

    If you want to do an excellent job wiring your truck, listen to Steve. But you can get by with much less, if you understand how it all works. For example, I just got an old Corvair running again after it had been sitting for a long long time, and most of the electric stuff is now working fine, with no ground wires, with the old Packard 56 connectors. The rust in the fuse block caused a few temporary issues, and the dirty switch contacts took some exercise to get functioning again, but now it's pretty much all happy. Needs a pair of door switches for the dome lights, though, they are rusty and really difficult to clean.
     
  15. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

  16. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    depends what accessories you are talking about. Do you have some examples?
     
  17. That's a 'one-size-fits-all' closed-barrel crimper, and I like this one better... https://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Indust...rd_wg=4KITS&psc=1&refRID=A63ZRHFAAY5Q00J7W67K
    Actually has the three different sizes; 10-12, 14-16, and 18-22.

    I don't have an opinion on open-barrel crimpers as I avoid using them wherever possible. I've got an old AMP crimper that I use on those rare occasions, it works OK.

    You can use 'common' grounds for multiple items, but remember that it must be sized for the TOTAL load. As an example, if you use a common ground for two 10 amp loads and each is fed with #14 wire, you'll need a #12 ground rated for the 20 amp total.
     
  18. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    Thanks - last couple questions for now .....

    1) Flasher relay. Kit has 2 on fuse block.

    TOP FLASHER (2 pin)
    Long Brown Wire - Marked Hazard Light
    Short Black Wire - goes to Hazard Fuze

    BOTTOM FLASHER (2 pin)
    Long Purple Wire - Marked Turn Flasher
    Short Black Wire - Goes to Turn Signal Fuse

    So - how does that get wired to make front/rear turn signals work :)

    2) Horn is a 30A relay - do they really draw that much load ? Figured it would be a 5A constant on with just a switch broken circuit when not engaged.
     
  19. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    Looking at this diagram .......
    http://www.taillightking.com/images/Turn Signal Switch/TurnSignalSwitchWiring.gif

    Guessing the purple turn flasher wire goes to the turn signal .....
    But then ...... do you run the (left/right) wires supplied from the turn signal to the turning lights - sounds like you do, but think the harness has turn signal wires..... so ?

    also

    If you have a modern column like a GM or IDIDIT does this wire and the flashers just get removed/unused - or still used etc ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  20. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    Do you have a turn signal switch? 57 trucks had one available as an option, not many trucks had it factory installed. I didn't see anywhere in your question above, where you mentioned what you have in your truck.

    The flasher cans that fit on the fuse block are to provide the "blinking" power to the turn signal switch. the turn signal switch will send that power to the appropriate lights. The reason there are two of them, is that the turn signal can only gets power when the key is on. The hazard flasher can gets power all the time, so the hazard flashers will work when the key is off.
     
    FAKKY and olscrounger like this.
  21. If that's the turn switch you have, yep, use the purple wire connected to the blue. You'll want to use the new turn harness wires. You won't have any place to connect the hazard as the switch lacks that function. And another reason for a separate hazard flasher is it takes a different flasher to flash four lights instead of just two.

    Nearly all 'generic' aftermarket harness kits are set up to use a late-model column/switch and use GM color-coding. That doesn't mean they can't be used with other brand columns or aftermarket turn switches, just that you'll need to identify the equivalent wire colors.

    Horns have a large current inrush (up to 300% of 'running' current; they would be considered as a 'motor') and can draw up to 10 amps; typical is 6-7 amps. The 30 amp relay is used to add longevity to the relay contacts.
     
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  22. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    Thanks Squirell/Steve. Makes sense.

    So (and I know you dont have the kit in front of you) ....... but if I had that turn signal (I have something similar) ......
    wouldnt it be

    1) Run the flasher purple wire from fuse box to the blue and black wire (coupled) of the turn signal.

    2) Then add/extend Green/yellow/orange/brown wires are then run directly out of the turn signal itself to each light turn connector.

    but .....

    then why would the harness/fuse block have runs of turn signal wires directly from the fuse box ......
     
  23. You'll have to ask the supplier that! o_O
     
  24. I used a Kwik Wire kit, the hardest part was running everything out to where it will live. The kit came with a handful of terminals and a set of column connectors. The instruction book was excellent and I only recently reached out to them when I wired my electric fan. There was no mystery at the fuse block, plug and play.
     
  25. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

  26. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    The fuse box is designed to be located near the steering column. The wiring is arranged so that there is a "trunk" of wires, with "branches" that go off to different parts of the car. The wiring for the turn signals has to run from the steering column branch, to the front body branch, and to the rear body branch. I would expect the wires to be in the trunk, and how close they get to the actual fuse block...???? we can't see it, you can.
     
  27. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    Lost me.

    What I mean is I think I get how it would work with

    Power to fuse box and flasher circuit
    Goes to turn switch.
    Then 4 wires to each turn light from the switch itself.

    But if it was meant to work like that .... Then why the 4 turn signal wires coming out of the fuse box.

    Seems like something gets spliced in somewhere .... Or ....
    The setup is for a modern column and gets it's signal from the column and the. Feeds out to signal lights somehow

    Sent from my XT1650 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  28. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,812

    squirrel
    Member

    well, I'm lost, too. If you take pictures or draw diagrams, I can probably understand it, but the words don't have enough detailed information.
     
  29. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

  30. FAKKY
    Joined: Sep 9, 2016
    Posts: 259

    FAKKY
    Member

    Pic attached above.

    So basically wires are run directly from the turn switch (controls which side signal gets sent - left or right) via the wires you take from the signal directly to the turn lights.

    Then what are the 4 wires in the harness (shown purple above) used for. They would just be wasted/unused.

    seems like ......

    1) The harness is meant for a modern GM column where signal comes from column itself into teh harness and then out along its four inbuilt wires.

    or

    2) Have to splice something here.
     

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