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wiring help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gallogiro, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    hey guys. I just finished wiring up my 1948 Chevrolet fleetmaster. I used the ez wire kit and followed the instructions as vauge as they are but got it done. now when I connect my battery this happens
    headlight switch all seems to work as it should, headlights and parking lights come on when switch is pulled and dash lights go on. dimmer switch and brake switch too
    BUT
    when headlight switch is on, turn signals wont go off, brake light wont go off when I step on brake.
    when I turn headlight switch off
    turn signal flasher seems to work but instead of flashing from one side to another all 4 go off and flash along with the licence plate light like if I hit the hazard switch, but brake light will work when I step on the brake.
    the brake lights are single hot wire and ground but bulb is dual but no side marker lights, headlights are modern with hi/lo beam.
    the headlight switch Im using is this one,
    [​IMG]


    left bottom towards front of switch is headlight, middle is tail, and top is park. that's for the left. on the right the bottom one is dash lights then the two fused is stop and dome. and the turn signal switch is
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,284

    metalman
    Member

    What do you mean when you say the brake switch goes on like it should when the head light switch is pulled on? The brake switch shouldn't have anything to do with the headlight switch. Brake light and turn signal switch circuits are totally seperate from headlights, taillights and park lamps.
    Your front turn signals are duel filiments too, right?
     
  3. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,284

    metalman
    Member

    Sounds like your headlight power is backfeeding thru the turnsignal switch somehow is why I ask.
     
  4. WOW! Now that is a mouth full for sure!
    Assuming you have two element bulbs for the front and rear lights, I would disconnect the directional and get the system back to where you can trouble shoot it without directionals. Process of elimination! Check all your grounds. Bad grounds will literally drive one crazy. I suspect the directional tie in is perhaps not right.
     

  5. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    yea, when the headlight is off, I hit the brakes and they light up, I pull the switch to turn on the parking lights and the brake light wont light up anymore when I step on it. the fronts are dual as well. so it could be the grounds? the only grounded wires on the lights are the tail lights I grounded them to the body. I know its confusing. when it gets dark ill record it and post a video so you can see exactly whats going on. it should have been an easy rewire, a lot is eliminated like the signal indicator, most gauges, no accessories or power anything. its just that the ignition and tail/headlights that's it. and on the turn signal theres a hazard wire, but don't have it connected just the flasher wire. ill post a video so you can get a better idea of my problem thanks guys
     
  6. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    also I didn't run a "stop" wire from the headlight since there was no wire for it off the harness. and yea vtwhead It was going to be my last resort is going through it wire for wire. also is there a possibility the turn signal lever might have been burned out? do they burn out connectors or go bad?
     
  7. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,284

    metalman
    Member

    I don't see where a burned out TS switch would cause a problem, I still feel the 2 circuits are back feeding.
    Do check your grounds to the tail lights, that could cause the brake lights not to work when the head lights are on but there has to be more.
    You are sure you don't have any wires connected anywhere together between the headlight/ tail light circuit and the brake/ turn signal circuit.
    One possibility that I've ran into a couple times that had symptoms like yours is a shorted bulb. I've had duel element bulbs short both filaments inside together. Pull/ switch one bulb at a time and see. Can't always tell by just looking at the bulb. Had that issue just a couple weeks ago, the guys car would have the parklamps and sidemarkers light up every time he stepped on the brake, I found someone had changed the taillight bulb with a single element bulb. The single post was touching both brake and run posts in the socket. Changed his bulb and all his weird wiring issues were gone!
     
  8. OFT
    Joined: Jun 1, 2005
    Posts: 554

    OFT
    Member

    "on the right the bottom one is dash lights then the two fused is stop and dome."

    Fused line is normally from battery and only feeds headlight switch, yours is odd with connection on both sides.

    Stop and dome do not belong together on headlight switch (by wiring diagram). Your stop light switch would come from a fused circuit to switch on pedal or pressure switch in brake line. That then feeds to steering column connections as shown in diagram of add on turn switch (red wire=brake switch).

    Good grounds are a must or you'll get feedback on turn/brake circuits.
    Earl
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  9. 24riverview
    Joined: Jan 13, 2008
    Posts: 938

    24riverview
    Member

    My first thought when I read this was that you have the wires switched at the taillights. Taillight power is lighting up the brighter element so you're just not seeing the brake lights because they are dimmer. Not always noticed if you're sitting in car testing this yourself. Just my $.02.

    In this headlight switches original application it was used as the distribution point for all the hot leads, unfused the 3 terminals at the back, fused off the right side (brake lights and dome).
     
  10. This is NOT right. You can't have a dual element bulb with only one power wire. :eek: You should have two wires, one for taillight and one for brake light. The bulb housing grounds the taillights to the car.
     
  11. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    check this out guys, car is wacky I got more issues now

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY0dH05AOq4&feature=youtu.be

    like its haunted, now the dash lights flash like they are hazard lights. this is exactly how I wired it

    headlight switch

    [​IMG]

    turn signal switch

    [​IMG]

    the tail end

    [​IMG]

    metalman I get what you are saying. as I drew up the diagram I realized at the hot wire they are all connected together from the left one to the right, so power is connected to all of them. even though the wires end at the light, its just like having them connected from the source its like flowing water in pipes.

    oft yea I thought that was odd but where I bought the switch the box was marked "with fused stop and dome connector" which is the two on the right. im confused because my harness doesn't even have a "stop" wire to feed to the switch. but I keep hearing that if its not grounded right it will make the whole system go wacky.

    24riverview I get what you are saying, I will have to check that. when I bought the tail lights and head light switch, for some reason didn't come with instructions and they felt they didn't need to put what wire is what by labeling it so I guess they figured either we were already supposed to know or felt we like puzzles and getting it right was something that was earned not given. I had to look through a lot of forums to find the original wiring diagram just to find the headlight wiring schematic

    hotroddon, these are the tail lights I have on it

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    so you are saying the black wire isn't a ground wire? I get what youre saying, like I mentioned when I drew up the diagram I realized theyre all connected. it makes perfect sense, so the bulb housing grounds itself? god I hope that's the problem, if so can either wire go to either wire or is one brighter than the other as that one would need the brake light wire connected to it.

    I will check all of that tomorrow but hotroddon, I think you hit the nail on the head. I am now anxious to check all of it tomorrow, at the moment there is a storm here in southern calif so if it lets up for about an hour tomorrow im jumping out there and taking care of that. thank all of you in advance, your help is much appreciated wish you guys were local id take you guys out for some beers to show my gratitude, hotroddon if you go to Pomona this weekend let me know ill buy you a beer and a turkey leg. thanks guys I will check tomorrow
     
  12. the observation I would make is that you cannot have two different feed wires on the same lead to the lights. You have back feed issues in the diagram you are showing. Each wire for park lights, directional, tail lights and brake will require separate wires and two element bulbs. They are not intended to be shared. This has to be the beginning of your problem!
    The lights you have shown would appear to be a single element bulb type. Black would be the ground unless the housing is the ground and each wire is going to a separate element in a two element bulb. Can you clarify what you have there?
     
  13. OFT
    Joined: Jun 1, 2005
    Posts: 554

    OFT
    Member

    On taillights,....... Black is not "ground"....................... The wire colors are from DOT code which uses AC (house type) wire color marking (black=hot and white=neutral). In car use black is turn/brake and white is taillights.
    The bulb/housing is grounded when installed in metal body via the two mounting studs.

    Earl
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
  14. 24riverview
    Joined: Jan 13, 2008
    Posts: 938

    24riverview
    Member

    As mentioned before you need to separate the wires at the taillights. I'm going to differ from OFT and put my money on black being tail and green being turn but just be sure after you hook them up. Also I would assume the front parks to be single element so unless that has been changed make sure you don't have the same issue at the front as the rears (both wires hooked to single wire at socket). I've also added some notes to your drawings.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. 24riverview
    Joined: Jan 13, 2008
    Posts: 938

    24riverview
    Member

    Also wanted to mention-you have a question mark on the hazard flasher wire, with that switch you use it or the turn flasher wire. The hazard flasher will give you turns and flasher all the time (key off), the turn flasher wire will give you turns and flasher only when the the key is on. Your choice.
     
  16. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,067

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Middle pic that shows brake lite switch,,,The line to turn signal switch is OK but the other line should not go to brake lights, ONLY the 3rd brake light if you have one...The turn signal switch controls whether the tail light flashes or shows brake through the same filament...Park and tail lights are basically same power source [headlite switch controled], front turn signal and rear turn signal/brake get power from the turn signal switch; turn signal switch gets power from the brake switch and the flasher..Flasher gets power from ing switch with key ON and/or maybe accessory; the brake switch and headlight switch power in should be hot at all times....
     
  17. I suggest you purchse a good continuatity tester and learn its use
     
  18. OFT
    Joined: Jun 1, 2005
    Posts: 554

    OFT
    Member

    I think your correct (just looked at wiring on my truck). I stated white as that is harness color wire I used for taillights. The white harness wire is in fact going to the black wire on my taillight assembly. Turn/brake going to green.

    Thanks for catching this! Should have finished coffee and went and looked first:p



    Earl
     
  19. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,792

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Yup. I sucks, but you should retrace your wiring. Sometimes, there is no easy fix.
     
  20. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    thanks again guys, I cant wait for this rain to let up so I can make the changes I need to make and get this fixed and done. but you see the video how wacky the lights are, like its haunted. but I see what you guys are telling me makes sense and see how itll work.

    I didn't put down or mention but I am using a 3rd brake light and the wire is there for it it is part of the harness its ran up to the brake light switch directly. I hooked up a wig wag 3rd brake light you can see it ticking away when I walk by the back of the car in the video but I don't have a bulb in it. but it stays on at the moment when I turn the headlight switch on because of my wiring issue.

    wbrw32 do you have a continuity tester you recommend? is it the same as a multimeter? you can never have too many tools that's for sure and that's something I don't have.

    im hoping the rain lets up at some point tomorrow, here in so cal I know they joke about how our winter is like summer here because we have beach weather all year round but today is a total storm. im hoping it doesn't cancel the Pomona swapmeet sunday either. but if I can get just a half hour of clear sky ill see if what you guys suggest work, im sure it will it makes sense thanks guys
     
  21. You can pick up a cheap multimeter for less than 10 bucks. If you learn how to use the continuity (resistance) and DC voltage ranges you will be able to sort out 99% of electrical problems with your car.
    The Chevys had single filament front lights, and twin filament rears, you have to have the right bulbs in each socket.
    If you disconnect your 2 wires from your rear lights, (and leave the housing screwed in place), you can run a long wire from your +12 on your battery to each of the wires that come from the taillight, you can check which wire does what (the brake is the brightest of course).
     
  22. YEs,they are the same...I buy mine at Radio Shack..
     
  23. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    still storming here pretty bad, couldn't check on the wiring today

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    after doing more research on wiring diagrams for other cars and my own since I cant be outside I see you guys are right, thanks guys I would have spend days trying to find a short or exactly where I crossed the wires when it seems it was the tail lights. wish I could go out there now and fix the issue now I owe you guys one. from all the other forums the hamb seems to have the most knowledge =)
     
  24. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    is it just me or when it storms like this does every single drop you hear on your roof or splash on the cement make you cringe knowing you are getting water in all the crevices of your car =( before I bought my first old car I loved the rain
     
  25. rocknrolldaddy
    Joined: Aug 24, 2006
    Posts: 336

    rocknrolldaddy
    Member

    Hotroddon is correct. You also need to make sure the housing is touching bare metal. When I did my car, I went down to metal at every ground point. I removed all surface rust and paint where ground was mounted.
    I hope it all goes well.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  26. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    thank all of you for helping me, did exactly what you guys told me and now all my lights work perfect! even my extra accessories and 3rd brake light work great! problem was the wiring, I had every single double filament bulb on the car grounded and both wires designed for the bulb tied together into one wire I thought was the positive for the front and back lights. wired all of the bulbs right, and instantly worked the way they should. thanks a lot guys, I would have spent a whole week dissecting the whole wiring harness wire for wire and trace where it comes from and where it goes to find the problem, I owe you guys one again the hamb hasn't let me down yet =)

    one last thing, more of a question than a problem. the original switches are 6 volt, one of them is a 2 position on/off switch which is the fog light switch but has a 6 volt fuse on the back of it

    [​IMG]

    if I replace that glass 6 volt fuse with a 12 volt fuse, will it be ok to use as a 12 volt switch to turn on my fog lights which are already wired up to work just need a switch? would it be ok to run 12 volts through it? im concerned about it not being able to handle it and get hot or even worse, burn.

    which brings me to another concern. if for some reason something shorted either in the lighting or the ignition/power wiring, would it blow the fuses before any major problems or is there a chance the wires will catch fire? I saw some pictures of classic cars that caught fire from under the dash or engine compartment and scared the hell out of me because after the whole car went up in flames
     
  27. Texas57
    Joined: Oct 21, 2012
    Posts: 3,348

    Texas57
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. 1952-59 Ford Social Group

    "......is there a chance the wires will catch fire?" There is always that chance.
    I am not an electrical guy by any means, but a few observations here.....The guys have figured out and addressed specific questions/problems you brought up. I would think converting a system over from 6 to 12 volts has a lot of modifications to components such as starter, generator/alternator, various switches, ignition, etc. that you haven't included in this thread, so it would be imposible to know exactly what you have done, or not done that needs to be addressed before you have a safe system. Did you install a cut off switch? I'm the last guy that would want to discourage someone from doing it themselves, but to be honest, I'm sure not comfortable with what you have conveyed here indicating an adequate level of research and learning. Wiring isn't something to be taken lightly. My recommendation is to have a qualified person check it over before you get too far down the road to make sure all that voltage conversion stuff is taken care of.
     
  28. Automotive fuses don't care if they're 6V or 12V, only the amperage is important. As long as the fuse size in amps is matched to the load and the wire size is large enough, that should offer adequate protection against overheating/fire. Fuse size should be 125% of the actual load; in other words, a 8 amp load would need a 10 amp fuse. You can safely 'bump up' to the next standard fuse size if you get a value between standard sizes, but don't go any larger; too-large of a fuse is a leading cause of fires. For lighting loads, add up the watts of all the lights on that circuit then divide by 12 for amps. For other electrical items, use either the recommended value from the vendor, or if the part is from a donor car, the fuse size originally installed.

    As far as the switches, a 6V switch will have no problem carrying the 12V load as long as it's in good condition. Same thing goes for your wiring harness; if you converted to 12V and retained the harness, it should be plenty big enough to carry the load. An equivalent 12V circuit will have about 1/2 the amps of a 6V one.
     
  29. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    that's what I was thinking texas, now that its done having an actual shop double check everything. im thinking of putting a cut off switch on the inside of the car firewall, one of those push button 80 amp circuit breaker switches. whole car is converted all bulbs changed out and in engine compartment I upgraded to alternator and the engine when I bought it was already upgraded to 12 volt ingnition and spark. im not too worried about the lighting wires, its the power and ignition wires under the dash from the ignition switch to the engine compartment. I will draw a diagram of how its wired in the morning but I used the original ignition switch. I am definitely carrying around an abc fire extinguisher as I do when I take out any of my old cars. it will extinguish an electrical fire but stain everything permanently and will have to replace not just whats burned but what got contact with the powder. but this is all the things im trying to avoid
     
  30. gallogiro
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 911

    gallogiro
    Member

    thanks for the info crazy steve, didn't know that but do now =) yes the switch is in good condition im going to test the switch on my battery charger, leave it powering a 12 volt bulb for an hour or two to test. I figure if something goes wrong, itll happen within the hour and will be bench tested so no risk besides some charring on the wood. and as for the harness, the whole car is new wiring bumper to bumper 12 volt kit
     

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