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Projects winter project - "so let's chop a 40 coupe (and fab everything else possible...)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by zibo, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    This is a consolidation of the "so let's chop a 40 coupe" thread.
    It strayed a little so i'll add to this one in the future...
    here goes...


    I've had this 40 for a while now,
    and i've had the itch to chop it since before i even bought it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This was the idea...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    TP
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  2. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    I forgot how much I love this place!

    hudsoncustom-
    you were chopping your hudson the same time i'd drawn out the model!
    (see your old post) Great car and great job!

    Dan - I miss V-town but glad you were able to take the reigns! not that i had em!!!
    Dago is cool though, busy but cool...
    See you at your open house/primernats.

    ++++
    Real quick this was what inspired me for the stink bug, thanks Don Montgomery!!!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    TP
     
  3. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    [​IMG]
    These were some really bad photoshopping efforts...

    [​IMG]
    unchopped
    [​IMG]
    chopped

    TP
     
  4. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    I'm kinda at work so this post will be a little sketchy...

    Anyway I understand all you anti-chop guys,
    this 40 was destined to be a full anal restoration by the previous owner.
    Fortunately he was a family friend and got heavily into early harley restorations,
    so got it on a pay plan.
    I didn't realize the body was so straight,
    none of those crazy hard-sanding indentations or cancer or too sagging doors.
    Also not perfect enough to worry about ruining original paint or anything.
    (the green is 10 cans of Kragen's Duplicolor "hunter green" and some clear coat!)

    I had been stuck behind a 40 coupe at a reliability run thing,
    it was beige and the more I had to look at the rear windows the more huge they got.
    Its one of the things that started me on the chopped thing.

    [​IMG]

    So thanks to the sale of the Red Dot roadster
    (featured this september in the HAMB Calendar, THANKS DJANGO!!!!)
    I was able to afford,
    to the relief of you all this beater 40 coupe on ebay.
    [​IMG]
    It ended at $620 and spurred one of the funner road-trips i'd been on in a while...
    ...if you're super bored here's the play by play!
    http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=308451470&blogID=367353229

    [​IMG]

    Perfect for chopping!

    TP

    Hey Ken!
     

  5. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    well fast forward a couple months, and I ended up moving to San Diego, about 200 miles,
    but it took 6 or so heeaavvvy loads to bring all my shit down here, ditch the ventura shop
    find a shop in SD and everything that goes along with having 3 kids and a wife!!
    Seriously recycled 7000 lbs just in steel scrap too!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    new home!

    TP
     
  6. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Thanks KEVIN your coupe project is kinda parallel to my thought process in this one,
    I just need to do it and see it out of my head!

    TP
     
  7. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Fortunately the coupe didn't have the best body work on it,
    unfortunately the doors were welded on crooked, hinge base rusted out, rear missing...
    and lazy rushed moving tweaked it even more!
    It took a night just to square it up.
    At this point I wish I had spent another hour or two more prepping,
    especially cause the front firewall is kinda caved in and some reallly bad hackwork had to be cut out.
    [​IMG]
    Fortunately I had the green one to base all the measurements on.

    After alot of hemmin an hawin,
    3.5 inches was decided as a cut.
    This was brought on cause I had 1", 1.5" and 2" masking tape!
    Also 3" is not enough and 4 inch is a little too radical...

    [​IMG]
    If I chopped the green one, i'd only chop it like 1.5-2 inches, really subtle.

    I like the tape and paint method,
    cutting out only the painted area after semi-precision measurements with the tape.
    [​IMG]
    The windshield will be leaned back,
    so figured that the windshield would only be shortened 2.25 inches,
    cause it needs to stretch to meet the roof.

    Unlike Zachs friends chop (which looks good),
    the goal was to keep all the ford curves just reduce them.
    The idea is to not replace metal in the rear 3/4ters, just match curves
    and for sure not to add a strip in the roof center or door tops, just the decklid or rear panel.
    It was alot harder than I'd thought (as noticed by the multiple prep marks!)

    It took one night just to tape the back end all wrong, (not all night...)
    then sleep on it and realize my measuring tools were not being utilized right.

    Remember from the model that the rear panel will be slid forward,

    So basically there are 4 slide measurements that are important to make this work,
    1-the quarter window(s)
    2-the drip-rail line(s)
    3-the rear slope near the rear window
    4-the side slope after the drip-rail line to #3
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    so using my super-accurate tooling figured a 3" slide...

    and came up with this...
    [​IMG]

    TP
     
  8. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Having 3 hot rods and 3 kids!
    There was a point when they all ran great,
    than after 2007 shows, (friends would drive the other 2)
    it ended up that they all needed some attention=$
    and each one had serious issues, other than the roadster!
    A friend ended up buying it (I got to chop/hot rod his '35 4 door the previous year)
    and he ruined it but loves it.
    Was gonna wait til september to tell that story...
    TP
     
  9. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Bluto what the hell's up with that coupe?
    Its been years since any updates!
    Current pics?
    This chop will be similar more race than custom.

    Holy shit kustoms2 you musta had a good childhood bein around that thing!

    TP
     
  10. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    So after a couple cans of liquid courage...
    [​IMG]
    the whole thing
    [​IMG]
    kinda fell apart!
    [​IMG]
    No really!
    [​IMG]
    glad I had that roller cart thing.
    [​IMG]

    There was an issue I got out of alot easier than expected,
    and my deal with myself was giving 5 nights/weekend to chop this body.
    That is why I rushed it on the cart.
    I think it woulda been stronger on a frame, but didn't want to wait month(s)
    or take the green 40 apart!
    (besides there being no floor or bottom structure that would match a stock frame!)
    My goal right now is to have it in the shop wanting to be built, not looking like a POS!
    Also after its done I think the height/rake/style of a custom frame will morph with the body, instead of the reverse.

    TP
     
  11. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Well after cleaning up that seam that rusted out where the top and sides meet,
    I was bummed that my measurements were off, about 1/8-3/16.
    They woulda been right if I had measured it from the vertical window post,
    but then I think the rain gutter line woulda been off.
    So oh well that's why the rusty body huh!
    [​IMG]
    Its ok i'm a "tigger" and need the practice! yeah...
    Rusty Ford steel is great to weld with once its clean too.
    Thank the hot rod gods for the Miller DynAsty!!



    Like I said earlier, the seam where the top and sides meet, the gutter line,
    was really rusty.
    After taking out the old sealant tape and rust, it compressed alot.
    I think thats what created the change measurements,
    cause the rust expanded that area more than I realized.
    [​IMG]
    But this part lined up kinda like the clouds parting on a rainy day and the sun blinding your eyes so I had to sit down...

    TP
     
  12. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    As Rikster states ( and cleatus) the 40 has some bulbousness to it.
    I actually kinda like the curviness, and am just trying to reduce it,
    kinda like a breast reduction not a mastectomy!
    Most chops replace those crazy curves of a 40 and smooth it out.
    The idea is to use the most minimal amount of bondo if needed and not replace ford steel.
    I don't have an english wheel (yet) and definitely not gonna pound something out symmetrically! (or strips of sheetmetal either)
    My metal finishing won't be as perfect as on Djangos/HotRodChassis chop but good enough for this car.

    The rear quarter window to me is also a focal point and this kinda chop makes it smaller lengthwise and uses the stock curves as well.
    When Rikster posted his hardtopped versions on the art contest,I flipped!
    But just not for this project!

    TP
     
  13. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    This is why I wish I'd done more prep work squaring up the body.
    [​IMG]
    For some reason the rear window center is about 1/4 inch off.
    The outsides are also not symmetrical.
    I have no idea why one side was wider than the other,
    maybe the fords weren't as perfect I guess,
    or the dent that was on that rear quarter changed the curvature?
    not sure but the top part measures the same and the bottom part is wider on the left.

    [​IMG]
    This was the first mockup of the windshield too.
    Again I cut about 1/4 inch too much out of the center.
    Thinking I could compress it and tack it, this one is a little more sloped.
    On the corners you can see the stretch cuts.
    This will be the hardest part since its so round and needs some pounding.


    TP
     
  14. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    If i'm lucky i'd like to have a stockish hot rod 40 wartime style,
    and then a radical one, not as crazy as bluto's, but something more race.
    I'd love to take out a tuner/mustang/tall truck with this rusty thing!

    I know lotsa HAMBers like the taildraggers but thats definitely not my style,
    though they're cool to look at.

    TP
     
  15. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Well that top rear pic was just a mockup, with clamps holding it together.
    After attaching the side pieces (see the tacks on the rain gutter)
    I slid it around to match the gutter line.

    [​IMG]
    Surprisingly it only took one slit on the drivers side
    Yeah I messed up here cause the cut overhang.
    For some reason I had clamped it using the window center as the true center,
    but it wasn't and by the time I figured it out I'd already trimmed it there.
    So when it was readjusted got another gap...it came out ok though...
    [​IMG]
    and 3 slits on the passenger side.

    According to this curve measure tool, the curves are almost exact, but almost = 2 slits!

    [​IMG]
    Than used some of the old cutouts to change the rear window corner.
    Here it is more obvious how the one side needed a bigger patch.
    Also moved the bottom center.
    Now they're symmetrical! strange.

    TP
     
  16. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Hey I heard you know how to paint over rust!
    I'll drop it off at your place when its ready, just don't drive it I wanna drive it back!
    TP
     
  17. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Well the idea is to make a frame and get it running.
    The time frame is up in the air, but i've been known to thrash something together!
    At first I was considering a HAMB-unfriendly setup,
    well actually maybe HAMBworthy with a s10 frontend or something similar;0
    but a friend might throw an original style frame my way which will change the plan9!
    Regardless if I can keep chipping away at it, it beats television, whoring and hard drinking!

    ....

    [​IMG]
    So a 7/16 sliver had to be added to the windshield center.
    Fortunately the cast-offs weren't thrown out so it wasn't difficult.
    It eased the tension on the top though and made the corners alot easier.
    The door jamb was so rusted out that the pieces literally fell off during the initial cutting.
    It made it alot easier actually cause I could focus on the body not the supports,
    and then weld in the inner jamb once the body/windshield frame was straight.
    since they were kinda arc'd anyway they had to be conformed to the new curve.
    [​IMG]
    it was a pain in the ass but it was less work then anticipated.
    [​IMG]

    take a look at the bottom left corner, thats some nasty bodywork I don't know why that was like that.

    TP
    [​IMG]
     
  18. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    thats funny!
    hey by the way hows your coupe project(s)!

    ++++

    Oh yeah did I tell you guys that the door hinges had disentegrated?
    (along with the door bottoms...)

    [​IMG]

    dang back in a minit...
    TP
     
  19. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Someday i'd like to invest in a foot controled shrinker/stretcher,
    (or have NealinCA rig one up like his!)
    The jamb area would be a good starter project for that tool,
    since its just a stretch-curved right angle.

    Oh yeah Ken, that I musta missed that goin to the scrapper!
    TP
     
  20. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    So first the door had to be tacked in,
    fortunately the bracing was close enough so the top was cut off and trimmed to fit.
    [​IMG]
    The angle started at the hinge.
    so a little sliver had to be added.
    [​IMG]
    Than somehow a piece of the curve matched almost perfectly.
    I'll still have to add some to make the gap right, but its pretty close.
    [​IMG]
    I'm happy with the profile!
    TP
     
  21. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Hey aussiesteve that's really lucky and cool!
    How did you find them?

    This was our re-enactment of those pics, just with a stock merc flattie though and way slower speeds!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    then after rattlecanning it...
    [​IMG]
    These are the pics that makes me love the way they look stock-bodied!!
    TP
     
  22. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Good morning guys...


    Thanks Dan, fortunately with the green 40 it wasn't difficult to square it up to the correct dimensions.
    The other thing is i've been photoshopping it and there's a big difference in small changes of body placement,
    so making a frame/suspension to fit the body will be funner and will make it look right.
    (besides the fact that there is no floor or bottom uprights to fit a frame too!)
    I've been considering a mild section and a mild channel, over a little taller frame...

    [​IMG]
    door #2...

    Hey scott!
    the shop got small quick, my brother runs another business so we have a common tool-room,
    but he is able to bring in some bitchin tools that I need to learn!

    Like 296 said earlier, if the green 40 was chopped it would only be 1-2 inches,
    the curves and angles would be way easier vs this almost 4" chop.
    The thing that makes chopping a nice car is that the metal is straight and clean,
    not rusty and tweaked, so the outcome would probably be that much better.

    I'll probably just start saving up and look for another shell/project though.
    There is alot out there on ebay,
    and my brother has kinda become the guardian of the green 40,
    he's been storing it so I don't get any alcolhol fueled ideas!

    TP

    Rikster your crazy with those models,
    but that amount of work would be tough on the real thing,
    worth it but tough!
     
    wingnutz likes this.
  23. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    [​IMG]

    This zigzag door cut didn't result in the adding of a small strip like the other side did.
    A little bit of shaving of the outer curve though but somehow it all fit really easily.
    [​IMG]
    and the new side profile...
    [​IMG]

    TP
     
  24. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    ...He he...Rick I think just a couple cheladas and some makers-mark or hornitos will do!


    [​IMG]
    The whole hinge base will need to be fabbed up,
    was thinking of hidden hinges even though I like the outside ones.

    TP
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009
  25. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    ok finally these things loaded,
    like stated earlier big difference in ride height to make it look right.

    [​IMG]
    stock, well 17a style stock, but reversed...

    [​IMG]
    This is stinkbug high, with chop...
    the angles of the 2 pictures were off so the thickness of the roof would actually be less.
    (green shot was from lower angle, rusty shot was higher angle...)
    ok but needs a little help...


    [​IMG]
    This is way lower just with suspension.
    The tires on it are 16-7.50 LT's, big f*ckers and the fronts are 6.00-16's.
    I think I'd drive this one!

    [​IMG]
    This is sectioned maybe 1-2 inches not much.
    I kinda like it from the side view.
    This is a possibility cause the bottom of the doors are toast,
    and so is the rear body part that the fenders attach too.
    Then just the hood needs to be sectioned the same amount...

    TP
     
  26. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Oh yeah on the photochops there is no stainless centerpiece in the front window, like on the stock one.
    I like the idea of the '40 convertible style windshields with the sheetmetal center,
    like on the rear split windows.
    Since the whole cowl top has to be redone/replaced,
    that will be on the possibility list...
    TP
     
  27. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    That's ok kilroy.
    The thing is the top isn't really smaller, its the same size just shorter.
    Only 2.75 inches needs to be added to the rear decklid area.
    I guess i've always liked the profile of '36 roadsters/chopped 3-windows that have that longer rear decklid with the short top.
    (but thanks for backin me up that the stock 40 has issues;))

    [​IMG]
    kinda low

    [​IMG]
    superlow
    This is the unsectioned photoshop with a '41 merc lower door section/runningboard.
    If that section could be found i think i'd do it.
    TP
     
  28. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Thanks D - actually i've got a good collection maybe the headliner can be chelada cans!:)
     
  29. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    After checking out both the 32 frame tech builds,
    I was kinda embarassed to throw this out there.
    But here it is anyway!
    [​IMG]Since none of the frame is visible,
    the goal was to only follow the basic dimensions, not the curves.
    I found a company in LA that makes 2x5 tubing. (BOORMANS)
    Hard to find.
    Stock is 6 inches but figured it since it is pre-boxed it would lower the body an inch.
    [​IMG]
    Just a simple taper.
    Drilled and welded those rods in cause the tubing compresses when its separated to a C
    [​IMG]
    All tapered up.
    There is a slight bow to it,
    and thought of clamping it to be straight,
    however the bows were symmetrical (to both sides)
    and since i'd be bending them anyway, figured it would be easier to compensate for the bow,
    then having one be straight and one not as straight, or worse yet a lefty or righty.
    [​IMG]
    After alot of thinking and trying to use highschool trig,
    the most absolute way was to make a doorskin template...
    [​IMG]
    And then cut and paste the pieces to follow the measurements on the floor!
    [​IMG]
    Most of the bending and tacking was done on a flat table not the jackstands!
    [​IMG]
    the floor got a good workout...
    [​IMG]
    The end result should be a front and rear frame Z of 2"s.
    [​IMG]
    And these were the finished frame-rails.
    All of the weld joints have big ugly plates covering them, just in case.
    Like stated before, the frame shouldn't be too visible, so just wanted it strong.

    TP
     
  30. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    I got the day off today so gonna post up some pics from the past couple weeks.
    If you look on the previous page you can see the frame rail buildup.

    Here's the crossmembers...
    [​IMG]

    and here's them installed on the now pinched in the front frame...
    [​IMG]

    I found these cool 3/8" bolt inserts that took a long time but attach the runningboards nicely...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    and using the runningboards the body placement was easy to measure up.
    [​IMG]

    Since there's no floor or lower 2-6" of the body,
    new mounts and supports had to be made.
    I had found some larger inserts, for 1/2" bolts, yeah overkill but they're kinda cool...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ...
    TP
     

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