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Technical *** Will the groundhog see a banger February 2015 Banger Meet***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Please remember Racing engines are stressed to the max. They are going to break sooner. Blueprinted engines are a good idea as Russ says

    Brand new 5 main engines are new and honest you save money in the long run. There is a wonderful feeling about Drive like you stole it.......... If I had a use for D motor I'd buy one in a heart beat!

    Bill run an indicter over those Egge pistons sometimes they are strange
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  2. Well, I guess I got carried away with my late night rant. I, for one, feel that before people ask the basic questions they should first buy or borrow a copy of Jim Brierley's book. In it most, if not all, newbies questions are answered. The current engine that I'm building is for my RPU which will not be a daily driver. It will do 65 at 2250 RPM's with 3.78's but if I leave the 4.11's it will do 62 at the same RPM's which will preclude any freeway driving. I drove A's back in the 50's as daily drivers and for the most part they ran well with a minimum of maintenance. Like the occasional oil change. maybe the $.50 condenser.
    I feel I must tell you that back in the time I'm speaking of all of the everyday parts model T or A, ignition, including points coils sparkplugs, the round speed distributor caps were $.99 and fuel components including new carburetors, filters etc etc were out on open self service tables or gondolas. This was in Western Auto stores. You just gathered what parts you needed and carried them to the counter and paid. "Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end"
     
  3. Lanty
    Joined: Mar 1, 2012
    Posts: 6

    Lanty
    Member
    from Berwyn il

    Anyone know of any shops in Michigan that can do inserts?

    Perhaps a better question would be Is there a reputable banger builder somewhere preferably in the Detroit area?
     

  4. Should be a model A club in your area. They would know of shops offering this service. Or ask on the barn.http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3
     
  5. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 980

    johnneilson
    Member

    Bill,
    Sorry, I guess that I missed the rant, I usually try to read those.
    Your build sounds like it will be fun to drive, do you need a passenger?

    Jims book is good indeed, but these motors just require some basic understanding of an engine.
    After all, they were built before even the ratchet wrench and sockets were main stream.

    John
     
  6. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,204

    RussTee
    Member

    many newcomers dont know to read the basics at the start of each month a lot of collected information there.
     
  7. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Ok Back to tools
    This is a Bulldog axle removing tool
    It's used to "fish" out broken axle parts.

    DSC06582.JPG DSC06578.JPG DSC06579.JPG DSC06581.JPG

    You insert the tool to the axle housing. Push the handle in. Pull the handle back. Blades grab the broken bit and you pull it out. I've used it several times well worth the $10 Turns a long job in just seconds!
     
    Crazydaddyo likes this.
  8. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    John PM Bill for his phone number(if you haven't already) He's a wonderful guy to speak with.
     
  9. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,404

    The37Kid
    Member

    Nice axle tool Jim, but it won't work on an A or T. Bob
     
  10. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Don't need it to work on A/T's Bob it's a snap on my GMC and Prewar BMWs
     
  11. Binger
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,625

    Binger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from wyoming

    That axle puller is great. I could use one like that for my '30 Chevy. I twisted an axle when I was on tour a few years ago but was lucky enough that it broke at the end and I was able to grab it with my fingers. Chevys of that era have a tendency to break and it is a good idea to have a spare under the back seat. I have seen a homemade one built out of pipe and some plumbing fittings and a clothes line cable.
     
  12. Lanty
    Joined: Mar 1, 2012
    Posts: 6

    Lanty
    Member
    from Berwyn il

    Thank you for the advice, I put in an order request for that book to Jim, so assuming he still has and sells them I’ll be doing some reading soon! I have read through the Les Andrews Vol 1 & 2 books quite a few time, something new to look at is more that welcome.

    I do know enough to not ask what “lugging” is…I believe that guy still walks with a limp ; )

    I truly do appreciate any time and knowledge you have to share!
     
    Carlinaus likes this.
  13. Lanty
    Joined: Mar 1, 2012
    Posts: 6

    Lanty
    Member
    from Berwyn il

    Ya I did some goggling and searched the Ford barn, I also looked at the Michigan Model “A” Restorers Club (MARC) Model A vendor list before I pinged you guys, but nothing turned up.

    I took your advice and went back to the ford barn and posted the question and was referred back to "Antique Engine Rebuilding" which is about 25 miles from my house here in Illinois.

    My block on the other hand is in Michigan where the crank, pistons and flywheel are currently being balanced (the guy doing the work wanted to balance them all as a unit).

    So looks like it’s a bust, but I did find out there is a swap meet in Illinois this Sunday, so some good came from me chasing my tail.
     
  14. SJR
    Joined: Feb 17, 2011
    Posts: 126

    SJR
    Member

    Hey you Banger nuts , how come all the down draft carb manifolds for the A and B engines have no water jacket to allow the intake to be heated like all factory cars? the stock manifold gets heated from the exhaust manifold, seems to me this would effect the performance of the fuel atomization
     
  15. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,144

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    No place to get the water to run through it.

    .
     
  16. Winfield intakes bolt to the exhaust manifold and have a small 'pad' to aid heat transfer.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,144

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    Only as an up draft. If you turn it over to run it as a down draft the heat pad doesn't line up with the stock exhaust manifold heat pad.

    .
     
  18. IMO, Ed W. never intended those manifolds to be used in updraft configuration. Adapters were available to mate an S or SR updraft to a stock A or B manifold.
     
  19. They definitely don't bolt down to the exhaust manifold in updraft configuration.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  20. Well, welcome to the world of modified model A"s and B's. With my dual Winfield setup the engine stumbles off idle until the intake gets warm to the touch. Later model cars have automatic chokes to compensate for poor fuel atomization until engine is at operating temp, think about it! How long does it take for the water to get hot? Model A carb has a GAV adjusted with choke rod. I do have a Cragar single with a plate on it. Think " all factory cars" is a bit too broad of a statement!
     
    gwhite likes this.
  21. Bill, (loved your "rant" by the way...my banger is set up exactly as you describe) have you ever seen a dual intake with Winfield's logo/name cast into it? I have only seen a single old Cragar (I think) intake set up for dual Winfields...
     
  22. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,144

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    If not, why did he incorporate the heat pad into that manifold?

    .
     
  23. Winfield manifolds were designed for downdrafts using stock exhaust manifolds...tons of old photos of cars running that setup. Updraft carbs on A or B motors would have used the stock intake with a Winfield adapter.
     
  24. SJR
    Joined: Feb 17, 2011
    Posts: 126

    SJR
    Member

    would there be a benefit to have a water jacket at the base of the carb built into the manifold?, if so and someone offered it would you try it and with what carb?
     
  25. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,144

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    That still doesn't explain why the heat pad is there.

    Pictures don't cover all of history.

    .
     
  26. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,144

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Where would you get the water from? Water pump sucks water through the block. if the water passage is above the water pump, good chance water will not circulate through the pocket in the intake. In order to get the water to flow right, the routing of the hoses would be an awful eyesore.

    Personally I wouldn't use one. I live in a location that is rarely cold enough to worry about.

    .
     
  27. I think we must be typing past one another, hahaha.

    The Winfield manifold has a heat pad that matches the stock A/B exhaust manifold when used properly (downdraft configuration). This is not the case if the Winfield manifold is flipped upside down for use as an updraft - this is why I state that the Winfield manifold was intended for use as a downdraft...period photos and my own experience (having 2 such intake manifolds) bear this out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
    Hitchhiker likes this.
  28. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,382

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    My Stromberg-Bendix single barrel downdraft has the heat pad to bolt to the stock exhaust manifold. However, worthless when you're running headers.
     
  29. I know that Riley made his own dual downdraft manifold for his 2 port's. The hole spacing is different from the stock AB . I have seen one other named dual winfield manifold it was an Alexander on a Cragar. It had more of a square look to the runners. I do remember seeing adds for manifolds available for either Winfield or Strombergs.
    On another note currently under discussion. I think that If it was felt that a water heated manifold would have an advantage over the design offered by the aftermarket suppliers they certainly would have developed one back in the day when labor and casting were cheap.
     
    gwhite likes this.
  30. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    You can heat the carb/manifold by wrapping copper tube around them
     

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