I had someone telling me that I do not want to be starting any of my vehicles over the winter if I have no plans of driving them to operating temps, as condensation will build up in the oil and exahust and cause corrosion while simply idling Is there any truth to that, should I keep them sitting in my driveway without starting for four months?
Yes a lot of truth. If you start them, run the engine until you reach operating temp. Most engine wear is caused during the startup cycle. That’s the reason for multi grade oils.
Start them every day and run the temp up to normal Put dry gas in the tank. Add a dip stick oil heater if you have one.
Around the Minneapolis area in the 60's it was not unusual to see water running out of the tail pipes of cars just started in temperatures below 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Still see some water, but not like it was before catalytic converters.
- First, if a Battery dies due to Cold Temperature, it's done! It will never hold a charge. - Second, if you're that concerned, why leave them outside? - Third, as stated, fill the fuel tanks and add Fuel Stabilizer, to reduce condensation. - Fourth, overfill the Tires and hope they do not deflate in the cold. - Fifth, you're better off not starting them until Spring. Pull the Batteries and bring them in the house. Do not put them on a Cement Floor. I've had a lot of vehicles dormant over the Winter, and that's how I've been doing it for 40+ years in New England.
The byproducts of combustion are CO2 and H2O. You want the vehicle to come up to operating temp to burn off the H2O accumulating in your powertrain. This is true for warm and cold weather. The argument can also be said that idling a cold car in cold weather is not good because it is pushing cold oil through the engine. Yes, I know about multi-weight oils. My philosophy is that I still burn through a tank of gas during the cold St Louis winters by taking my projects for a few spins around the block as long as there is no salt on the streets. I let the car idle for 30 seconds, and starting with gentle throttle, hit the road to get it up to temp fairly rapidly, but nothing excessive.
Park and leave it alone except to charge the battery every other month. I don't even open the garage door unless I actually have to. Storage garages are heated to 50 degrees. I run Stabil, never fill the tank full and have battery disconnects. I also slide a tray of kitty litter under the cars and leave the hoods open. No car covers. A large fan runs six hours a day on a timer. Never an issue.
What is the supposed benefits to starting them during the winter anyway? An engine won't really boil off condensation unless it's under load anyway. Tank should be full, but leave a little room for expansion
Why are you starting it if you aren't going to drive it. It won't hurt the engine to sit for 6 months at a time. It isn't like they die of a broken heart if you let them sit all winter.
Plan the hibernation and let it hibernate. Fresh tank of fuel with preservatives and dry gas. Or drain the entire fuel system - all of it. Fresh oil change. Best to change the oil and go get gas or drive it a bit. Check your antifreeze, hydrometer and be certain of corrosion protection. If not change that too. Air up the tires and set Jack stands under suspension. Pull the battery inside Couple bags of damp rid or other moisture absorbers inside. Let it set. The worst thing to do is let cars sit without a hibernation plan. Leads directly to the "ran when parked" scenario. The second worse thing is to disturb the hibernation.
In a heated garage there isn't condensation in the tank and fuel turns quicker these days so I only put fuel in as I need it. Otherwise I would have ten tanks of compromised fuel I have to get rid of every spring. Doesn' make sense. The fan ( air movement) and kitty litter remove whatever moisture might be present. No matter how hot or cold your garage is the trick is to keep it as constant as possible. No big temp swings. Like opening the doors or starting the engine. I also don't leave trickle chargers on all of the time. I rotate them all every thirty days.
Why do you want to start your car in the Winter? If you want to drive it, go for it. Even in the Summer you should not just start you engine and let it run without driving it. Doesn't have to be cold to condense moisture in all the cold spots.
I didn't know what Drygas was (being from a non-freezing area) so I looked it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_gas Interesting they mention ethanol having much the safe affect. In my experience though the ethanol and absorbed water separate from the gas and sink to the bottom of the tank. I happened to be looking at a bottle of Stabil last night at the store, it said "works with ethanol fuel". What exactly it does I don't know, didn't have my glasses.
When I go to store a car or for that matter rototiller, lawn mower or chain saw, I make sure the last tank of gas has NO ethanol in it. It's the ethanol that attracts and absorbs water, and is also is corrosive. Running the carb out of gas is better yet, but requires disconnecting the fuel line between the tank and fuel pump.
This is what I do, last year I had the Ford out on some frigid days. I was laid up with the heart attack for a couple of months, put a battery tender on it. I had it out yesterday at 24* and it was fine. I drive it as long as the streets are dry.
Back in the stone age when lead-acid batteries were leaking messes (tar sealed glass jars?) there may have been a point in not keeping them on a conductive surface, such as concrete with moisture in it. Today you can put the batteries on almost whatever you want with no ill effect, since the battery itself is well insulated. Just keep the areas around the poles clean and dry.
I'm in a gas powered equipment business. I try not to start anything unless I am going to use it normally. I tell my customers this and to keep things pretty much full of fuel, don't go way overboard with additives. Run things that are to be stored over the winter normally, top them off, park them. Use them if you want, repeat. Through the years I've seen some nasty damage caused by dry evaporated fuel systems, And it is easily preventable. If you don't prefer battery tenders, just charge them monthly or so with a low amp (or other appropriate) charger.
The good plan outlined for hibernation is excellent advice as it is a good maintenance routine. Use Stabil for the gas and add a small shot of isopropyl antifreeze if you don't have gas line antifreeze available. The alcohol mixes with water in the tank so tiny amounts of moisture will pass through okay. Stabil has same properties as gas line antifreeze. Keep the tank relatively full as an empty tank will collect more condensation as there is more surface for water to condense on and it will help rust the tank. Shell premium is ethanol free. I use Stabil and premium gas in my lawn mower, snow blower, boat etc and have no issues. The snowblower was pulsing the other day and I gave it a small shot of isopropyl and it immediately smartened up. I do 4 or 5 driveways every time it snows so there is a lot of opportunity to inhale moisture into the tank. My dad was a car mechanic in his early life and our winter routine was always keep the tank full and a small bottle of gas line antifreeze at every fill up. It is 2 hours between towns up here so the last thing anyone wants is water freezing in the fuel lines. At 40 below everything gets a frost coating and the moisture precipitates like a fine snow. That is visual evidence of condensation in the cold so a full tank gives no air volume to hold moisture & a minimum of bare tank wall. There are magnetic oil pan heaters and stick on heaters for oil pans as warm oil will allow a quick start & the oil circulates quicker. Block heaters are pretty much standard equipment in Canada. Plug the heater in for a 3 or 4 hours before firing it up and it will come to life fast which is easier on the battery. Best way to get moisture out of the oil is run it for a while beyond a warm up & have a PCV valve so the evaporated moisture is removed from the engine. Water will boil out of hot oil. A simple test for moisture in oil is heat some oil with a lighter on a piece of tin foil or a spoon. If water is present in the oil it will crackle which is the water gassing off. PCV valves were installed on Ford flatheads & full oil circulation on Canadian military vehicles before WII as it lets the engines survive in the the extreme cold.
After some bad experiences with storing vehicles and not starting (one wiped camshaft on overhead cam engine from oil draining off cam, 2 events of seized brakes), my current plan (not always successful) is to start the vehicles, idle until normal operating temperature, and drive the vehicle at least twice the circumference of one tire weekly. No problems since starting this procedure. Jon.
That's a good plan too, There's a wake up procedure for cars that have been sitting (hibernating) and starting engines that have been sitting. Firing off a properly stored engine should start right up, if has been sitting dormant that immediate start has great potential to cause plenty of troubles.
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