The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by teddyp, Jun 14, 2010.
The way I look at it The Bigger The Better.......
I'm building a hybrid Deuce three window.....methane and tar ball
Some other HAMBers are giving you crap for choosing this engine to replace a stovebolt 6.
The way I see it, Toyota copied the Chevrolet 6 for their own use many years ago, continued refining and improving it long after Chevy abandoned the design, and made it widely available in Toyota Landcruisers so that eventually it became a worthwhile service replacement for a '41 Chevy truck.
If a new, slicked-up aftermarket stovebolt engine came on the market featuring better ports, EFI and electronic ignition, nice throttle response and excellent build quality, all for a junkyard price, nobody would kick about it.
Put it in a Toyota, though...
TEDDY P...easy big fella, take a chill pill. your starting to sound like me, and BROTHER i love it!...POP.
Just because I said so.
I agree with 10secondA.
why must we put the same make motor in samemake body?
Because it's easy........
So If I take a late model LandRover V8 and put it in it's Okay right? I mean it is based off of the early aluminum Buick V-8.
I'll bet the early day hot rodders didn't sit around arguing about what is the right motor to run...If you can make it fit and make it run and drive it,that's all that should matter..You are the one to please..
Wish I had a dollar for every guy who told me that he had a Corvette motor in his car. Up in Nevada somewhere must be a wrecking yard with several hundred thousand Corvette bodies without a motor. What a wate! Bill
And wait until I get my 66 Mustang on the road.
Flathead power. A warmed over 59AB.
Doing it just to see what sort of reaction it'll produce.
"I'll bet the early day hot rodders didn't sit around arguing about what is the right motor to run..."
I wonder about that too. They were resourceful and used what was available. I'm sure if you brought a hot rodder forward in time and tried to explain why you have over $10K in your blown, period correct flathead versus a $2500 SBF or SBC that would whip its ass, in addition to having hundreds of aftermarket parts suppliers and readily available parts they would look at you kind of funny.
I'm putting a 401 Buick with a 4 spd in my '49 Ford, but the expense and effort I've gone through so far to get the motor rebuilt and just sitting in the car is crazy. I could have bought a nice running SBF or SBC for the price of the rebuild kit and it would have been sure to fit, with application specific mounts availble over the counter. Nothing fits in my application. Will it go fast and be cool; hell yes. Would I do it again; Highly unlikely.
I'm putting a GMC engine in a chevy, does that count?
Had some know-it-all ask me WHY I put a Chevy in a Ford. Told him because I wanted it to go fast! They can say what they want...but after all these years the sbc is still the most popular. There's a reason for that. Actually several reasons in my book. There, that's my 2 cents.
a friend of mine put a Lexus motor in his 34 ford and he said he knew what the first guy to put a chev in a ford must have felt like. its fun toconfuse people. his car really ran well personally I like brand in brand ..but thats just me yougotta do wht you want unless of course you're too hung up on what others think (i.e. insecure?] there is only your right and wrong, as long as you are not infringing on someone elses.
I thought this thread was shut down...
Engine swapping has been a part of hot rodding for generations, so what's the beef? Maybe I'm getting too old to understand...
No we must'nt use the same make motor in the same make car. On the contrary we must now turn the tide and begin installing Ford engines in every other make car out there. Hot rods, muscle cars, racecars etc. You see my friends, Ford is once again the BOSS!
HIGH-REVVING FORD 5.0-LITER V8 DELIVERS POWER, SPEED, FLEXIBILITY BEFITTING THE BOSS NAME
2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 engine delivers 440 horsepower and 380 ft.-lbs. of torque without the aid of forced induction
Purpose-built Boss engine is based on production 2011 Mustang GT 5.0-liter DOHC V8, heavily modified with unique, Boss-specific parts to withstand all-day thrashing
Revised intake, CNC-machined heads, lightened valvetrain and strengthened reciprocating assembly result in a race-proven engine meeting production durability standards
2012 Boss 302 Introduction.
2012 Boss 302 Laguna Seca Introduction.
Boss Mustang Performance The all-new 5.0-liter dual-overhead camshaft (DOHC) V8 in the 2011 Mustang GT already is the most powerful naturally aspirated production V8 Ford has ever produced. To make it worthy of the Boss name, Ford engineers tweaked more than a few bits of the engine.
They reengineered an entire dynamometer cell to handle the engines projected 7,500 rpm redline; put the first engines into Boss 302R race cars and sent them straight onto the track; and they designed a torture test equivalent to running the Daytona 250 race flat-out more than 175 times in a row.
Only when the 440-hp V8 passed these tests, ensuring maximum power output without sacrificing durability, reliability and drivability, was it worthy of being called a Boss.
Bulletproof and blower-free
Planning began with a small group of engineers within the 5.0-liter V8 team. Starting with open minds and enlisting the help of two members of the original 1969 Boss 302 design team, the group began working its way toward the ultimate evolution of the new 5.0-liter: 440 horsepower and 380 lb.-ft. of torque, along with a broad, flat output curve all the way through its projected 7,500 rpm redline.
The Mustang team knew a supercharger would be the simplest way to extract significant power improvements from the new 5.0-liter V8, but they elected not to pursue forced induction for the 2012 Boss to stay true to the original Boss 302 engine.
The core group of engineers on the Boss 302 engine understands and respect the heritage of the name and the history behind the original engine, explains Mike Harrison, Ford V8 engine program manager. The first Boss 302 was a specially built, free-breathing, high-revving small V8 that gave it certain desirable characteristics on a race course and we capture that essence in the new engine.
The team also realized the additional hardware meant more weight, the bane of any racing program and the opposite of what the Boss design team was attempting to achieve. Instead, the same technology that has made the new Mustang GT engine such a formidable force was applied to the Boss 302.
In keeping with the spirit of the original, the new Boss 302 engine achieves its maximum power output at speeds at or above 7,500 rpm, says Harrison. Unlike the original engine, however, low-speed torque and driveability are uncompromised thanks to twin independent variable camshaft timing (Ti-VCT) technology and computer-aided engineering design tools.
Harrison and his team began exploring Boss 302 concepts starting with the engines ability to breathe essential to the production of horsepower. Because credible track performance requires high power production between 5,000 rpm and 7,000 rpm, the team needed a new approach to intake manifold design.
Borrowing from the Ford Daytona Prototype engines, the resulting short-runners-in-the-box design virtually eliminates lag when the throttle is snapped open while producing peak power output at high rpm.
The effect of the new intake design is dramatic, says Harrison. When I took the prototype car to Mustang Chief Engineer Dave Pericak, he took a short drive, tossed me the keys and said Book it
its in the program. He knew what we were onto, and thats really the point where the Boss 302 was born.
To take advantage of the racing intake manifold, cylinder head airflow was fully optimized by CNC porting the entire intake and exhaust port and combustion chamber. The painstaking machining process takes 2.5 hours per head to complete.
To accompany the higher peak-power engine speed, the team had to engineer a lightweight, high-speed valvetrain and bulletproof reciprocating assembly that would not only hold together for 150,000-plus miles but also produce power at peak rpm.
What most people dont realize is that engine stresses increase exponentially as engine speeds rise, explains Harrison. So moving up from GTs 7,000 rpm redline required significant re-engineering of many different parts. Sacrificing reliability and usability over the GT engine was never an option.
Some of the Boss-specific parts contributing to the Boss 302 V8s output and durability include:
* Revised composite intake system with shorter runners, inspired by Daytona Prototype racing engines, for high-rpm breathing
* Forged aluminum pistons and upgraded sinter-forged connecting rods for improved strength, needed for the higher combustion pressures and engine speeds
* New high-strength aluminum-alloy cylinder heads with fully CNC-machined ports and chambers for exceptional high-rpm airflow without sacrificing low-speed torque
* Lightened valvetrain components to provide excellent dynamic performance up to speeds well above the engine redline
* Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved heat dissipation
* Race-specification crankshaft main and rod bearings for higher load capability and improved high-speed durability
* 5W50 full-synthetic oil with engine oil cooler for improved oil pressure and longer-lasting lubrication during extreme racing conditions
* Revised oil pan baffling for improved oil control under racing conditions and during cornering loads greater than 1.0 g
Close connection with race teams
Contrary to normal engine development protocol, the first batch of durability test engines werent installed in an engine dyno. Instead, thanks to a request from Ford Racing, they went straight to the track.
Ford Racing had challenged the Boss engine team to give them the first available Boss 302 engines, explains Harrison. They came to us in August 2009 and told us they needed engines as soon as possible to build a limited number of Ford Racing Boss 302R cars for the January Daytona race. They got the engines 12 weeks later and the team got five Boss 302R cars prepped for the January race. This gave us a fantastic opportunity to be able to get full-on race experience with the engine so early in the program.
The Boss engines have run reliably all season without a single mechanical failure. Boss 302R cars have also racked up the most laps led so far this season in Grand-Am racing.
Using race telemetry, the Boss team has been able to gather on-track data to help optimize engine calibrations, oil pan designs and cooling. In order to engage in virtual racing whenever they needed, the team used the telemetry data to re-create a hot lap at Daytona on the dyno back in Dearborn, allowing further fine-tuning.
Working with Ford Racing has been invaluable, said Harrison. They were a wealth of information for setting up torque and power curves for road racing and for identifying areas of concern during track runs that we wouldnt have considered if we were just building a hot street engine. Every Boss 302 owner will benefit from their contributions to the program.
Production engine durability testing
Despite its racing heritage and the rigors of track-day testing the Boss 302 V8 is still a production Ford engine, built alongside the 5.0-liter GT engine at Essex Engine Plant in Ontario, Canada. That means it has to meet or exceed all the standard durability testing every Ford engine is required to complete.
The high-winding engine presented a challenge: The engine had no trouble staying together at its redline, but the Ford durability dynamometers werent designed to operate at the speeds the Boss engine was capable of.
Ford had no engine test cells built to run at that kind of sustained speed, said Harrison. Ford Racing had one, but it wasnt instrumented to do production durability testing. So we had to re-engineer the dyno cell with new balancers and jackshafts so the dyno wouldnt fly apart running at redline hour after hour.
Once an adequate test stand was configured, the Boss engine was run at its full rated output for tens of millions of cycles, eventually outperforming its specifications at every stage of testing. Engineers calculated that the test regimen was equivalent to running the Daytona 250 race flat-out more than 175 times in a row.
Team members also devised an additional durability test specific to the Boss 302 engine one that reflects the unique demands of Boss drivers. The engine was subjected to a regimen simulating 1,500 quarter-mile races typical of events at drag strips across the country.
Even though the production Boss engine is designed to be very close to a full race engine, it had to achieve the same vehicle durability signoff any other production engine requires, says Harrison. Then it went on to get the track durability test signoff too. Its really an engineering accomplishment that a Boss owner can thrash his car on the track and still expect the same outstanding reliability that the owner of a regular Mustang GT will enjoy.
You nailed it. I kinda like this one, a blown big block in an Izetta.
meh.. who gives a fuck what they think.
Its the same reason for why dont brothers and sisters date. Because ITS JUST WRONG!!!! XD
Hey fng You know you are right
I've got a 61 Falcon with a 65 Chevy G10 van ibeam up front, and 415" small block Mopar. My friends are into easy big power turbo LS1 fbodies, and Mustangs.
The other day I told my young friend Mo that i finally might make the switch: Nick Arias is pouring Hemi heads for the LS1....
his happiness at converting me was replaced with "Hemi? Wait, what? Who's Nick Arias"
The rest of the conversation was pretty entertaining...Kinda blew his mind about different style heads on different blocks-even though it's designed to be a crossbreed.
go me thinkin' though- about half breed mills- i've heard of 2porche heads cut/welded on a subaru block type stuff. Tractor pullers that use a IH head on case block- or vice versa.....
i've long held that certain cars shouldn't have certain types of engines, one, because i'm a Ford guy, and two, because sometimes it just shows a lack of imagination in my perception. however; i have learned that some guys build engines, and some guys build cars, and it's not a lack of imagination but an awareness of your goals and limitations that decide what power plant you use. if a SBC is easy to install, easy to maintain, and doesn't break the bank, and it makes you happy, roll with it! or ANY engine you feel comfortable with, for that matter. i've accepted the fact that a car is a collection of parts, and if you replace parts you feel aren't good enough, with better parts, what difference does it make?
personally, i don't like SBC's because GM put the distributor at the back.
it's spelled Isetta and that is a small block, not a big block.
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