The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 49' bomb!, Dec 16, 2019.
Limited audience. Not 4 me even at 10K
49' bomb, just because you built a car for 25K doesn't make it worth 25K. Neither is it worth 15K just because thats what you sold it for. I wouldn't have bought that particular car any price. Thats just me as I don't like the car. The chopped top ruined the cars proportions
The difference between a build price and the selling price of a particular car means absolutely nothing when it comes to describing the current state of the collector car market. Decent cars are still selling at decent prices. Not too long ago a sold a nut & bolt frame off restored 63 Impala for a price and profit I was happy with. I also don't build cars with any intention of losing ten grand.
Not to dis your car, but since you put it up, I think you were really lucky to get $15. I can't tell what's in it or under it, but I think it's way to busy in the back but too plain in the front. I could go on, but let's just say that like G-man, I don't care for the car. Glad you found someone who wanted it, even if you lost on the investment.
Just to put some things straight.
I realize most of you guys are
"Traditionalist" and any thing
You don't like is "taboo"! Back to
The "bomb" it's not for everyone!
As for the theme of this post, we
Are "discussing why hot rods
Aren't selling". Not that it matters,
But the car had a new motor!
Everything was new! Frame off
Restoration! As far as the "chop"
It's a lot of work! And the $10k
Loss was for work I had to "sub out"
Even though you guys don't like
These kind of hot rods. It's still
A "hard to sell"...
if you weren't happy with what you got for it, why did you sell it? Did buyer have a gun or something? He holding somebody hostage? Only person to blame for your loss is yourself. The market stepped up and gave you what it was worth. Oh, and by the way, something that's 'hard to sell' means you still have it. Since you're complaining about what you got for it, the selling part is over.
Keeping this friendly, since we really are a friendly place at heart, a Fleetline fastback is always a fave here when they're done well, as in finished. Lots of variables in a smallpic and I'm noting what the average buyer would likely expect. Surely you know this, and whatever reason you had to bail out of it I'm happy you were able to do that. I mentioned in another topic or 2 similar that we may see more free flowing cash as this next season rolls around. Gotta think positive, and I'm fairly confident I'll get my mid-$60s out of the Caddy conv. Markets are played from both sides, buyer and sellers.
Thanks for nice reply! I realize most of the, hambers are pretty well set in their ways! Myself, I tend to keep more of an open mind. Everyone likes what they like, and change is hard to accept! No one builds a car starting out to lose $10k. But it happens and I had to bail out of it..
I have read your additional posts after the quoted one above. Yes, the market results from the decisions of both sides....buyer/seller. And ‘they’, in turn are affected by economic projections, world events, demographics and the ‘mood of the moment’ of the Nation in which they/we reside. I am not a student of auctions these days but have in the past routinely followed auction results over a period of years. Enough so to have seen the same vehicle ‘s sale results at ‘X $’, only to sell for less or more within a year or two and then reverse course again.
In your own case, I respectfully suggest you are too closely involved with owner’s of the Caddy you are representing to treat it’s current market value at arm’s length. I would expect that you not only want to get a price that you can feel good about on your client’s behalf, but you have justifiable pride in your experience and know they too recognize that reputation.
If this same Caddy were brought to you for disposal by a total stranger, I think it likely you would try your best in current market conditions, but would be less emotionally invested in explaining the below expected value implied by the, to date, no sale at or near asking price.
@Hnstray I hear ya and essentially set the price approx 10% lower than all the price guides standards. I've looked at 4 others in the time I've had this in my posession and also witnessed some sales of similar cars too. There's no hurry, there's no set "or else" number, and I really do believe in how dumping can adjust the market value. One needs only look back on how many top tier cars got dumped starting in late '08 and thru '09. By the early part of '10 the good stuff was on a roll again. Saavy collectors knew these cars were tangible assets that can't be manipulated by some pimple-faced 'D' student on Wall St. Considering how many dove in and played with their excess mtg money only to have reality set in 5 or less years later, it was easy to see why the usual cars that trade often were a little toxic. How many Ca(cough-cough)maros got dumped thru Barrett and Mecum in those years, and yet now they've corrected and hold steady. Our beloved hot rods are no different, but there's only so many Meyers and Poteets in the game. The avg hot rod guy sets a goal, hustles and works extra, makes sure his bills are paid, sooner or later he's ready to start a project or buy a runner. I think this is why tax refund time gives 'our' market a little spike, and usually we see movement a bit before a big event too. That buyer is now ready. Simple, really. In the case of my car there's broad appeal to it. As I mentioned before there's been a subtle rash of mild and radical Kustom versions too. I was given a shot of positive outlook when a young dude in his late teens couldn't get enough of how "...fuckin sick." (in today's vernacular) the car was. It'll get done. Timing is everything, my time might be this spring. I feel good about next year's economy. Here's one fairly accurate valuation tool:
At the magic # of $65K I'm right where I need to be to get it done, and about $15-20K cheaper than a new Escalade
This has been a fun and useful topic...
One of the worst things a person can do is fall in love with 55-57 Chevys or 32 -34 Fords. Or maybe that may be the best thing? I bought my 1st 57 2dr HT for $850 in 1979 while making $2.35 an hour at a local grocery and going to body shop school. All the while, the gas crisis was kicking my rear and at 4-6 mpg, that car quickly became a vehicle that I no longer could afford to drive. Lucky for me, it was a classic then and easy to unload on someone with deeper pockets. Now, I'm not saying I made any money, but at least I didn't lose the farm on it. I sulked around there for a while and built a few off topic muscle cars and helped subsidize my income with a new wife and all. Well I figured,(and wrong I might add), that one day, I could pick up another tri five for peanuts after that generation moved on and the 60s and the 70s took over. Nope, It seems that everything I like is what everybody else likes and therefore, the aforementioned law of supply and demand kicks in and robs your pocket book on the front end. And it did on on my 55, but the good news? Well I can sell it when I need to, maybe like the one so many years ago, I won't take a bath on it, or maybe just a quick bath if I do. But I really don't buy cars or trucks with the intention of selling any more, I'm just one of those folks that gets a little tired of looking down the same old hood. I always regret selling them when I finally do. @49' bomb! , I feel like if you enjoy this costly hobby enough, losing on one every now and then is not so bad, it will only hurt a little while.
39 Chevy! This was the love of my life!
Should have never let her go! But, as stated,
It only hurts for a while..
I will say if your item doesn’t get any action your either too high priced or advertising in the wrong place. Folks collect everything and flippers are always buying . Try throwing a 1932 ford for 10k on or 15k for a driver or a 1933 1934 1935 1936 1940 or even a bitchen Model A ford and see how it will last . In fact just send me a message and save putting a ad in on that 1932.
.. I will agree thing are always changing and folks moving in and out of the hobby but is it dying I say no. If you have been in the hobby for some time you have seen it go up and down .
A week before Christmas I took the wife and some of her friends to Kansas City to see the lights ,shop and eat BBQ. While they were busy I went to three Classic car for sale buildings. I don't know if their cars were consignment or not. Another customer at one told me some of the cars had been there two years. He told me that there were hundreds of these Classic/Hot Rod dealerships around the country. I think if this is true the supply greatly exceeds the demand. I do believe that slow sales will continue , we do not have the buyers coming into the market as fast as they are leaving. As much as I want to buy I also do not want something that will drop rapidly in value. I will wait till I find something I want that is a good buy. I also think we shall see The big TV car auctions fade away. Just look at the age of the guys buying . Just my opinion ,I am usually wrong.
You are right,,,you should have never let that one go,,,it is beautiful !
I don't usually "look back" BUT!
It was a bad decision on my part!
It’s not going to get better. Younger folks could care less for a 33 Terraplane with a 392 let alone a 32 Ford with a sbc. It’s not in there blood. Fast forward 10 years and wonder again.
They are all too expensive for me to buy one now,if I would hit the Powerball then money would be no problem so I will keep what I got until that happens.
My positive outlook has another seasoning of hope going for it. There's a measurable percentage of our youth going back into the trades (finally!). Tradesmen likely make up the majority here and I'd bet a good number of us knew guys who were doing or looking for an old sumthin-sumthin to play with or build. That's contageous, and working side by side with those of like interests just expands the appeal. Of course it's not a fast process but a process nonetheless. I worked with racers, rodders, off road types and restoration fans when I was in the trades off and on. The other fact is that we never did see a massive marketplace dedicated to the craft of car building, yet there's SEMA, major swap meets, PRI and more. Some shit fades away like (cough-cough) billet, and some of our stuff evolves too. We're seeing awe inspiring craftsmanship applied to traditional build themes, and seeing more and more of it in event coverage and the shows we attend. Crack a beer, pour a coffee, enjoy your stuff. You're part of something that never was for everyone, so naturally any desired liquidation won't go fast. Til then enjoy it for all it's worth.
Most people with the money already have the cars they want, and the people with the want don't have the money. I want a Cord and don't have the money, they currently take, and the other cars I like I have, so there you go.
The market will be flooded as the years go buy....get what you can for yours now......and wait for the coming collections or cars to be auctioned......just saying........
Because right now I'm trying to BUY a car, I'm waiting for the market to flood, I've got high boots. A lot of people reading this would think that people here are a bunch of old, whiny sore-heads. Not me, but some might think that...
Well, alot of guys put a value on what is really a hobby. I'm 65, been looking at cars since 13, never considered what they were worth or what they cost, only that I liked a particular car. When I completed my 36 it was appraised at 40 grand, shocked the hell out of me, twenty years and many miles later, early this last summer I was offered 60 grand for it. It has only one value to me and my heirs, sentimental, never to be sold. My roadster is for sale so I can finance another car, not for a profit, but like everyone else, I want as much as I can get for it, but it'll sell for what I can get out of it.
Every other hobby.....I used to build custom saddle bags for harleys, it was a hobby for when I was out of work, never considered it to be profitable and it filled the gap, time wise and gave me a little extra cash. Thats what I see these cars as, a hobby.
I think a factor is age.... getting in and out of an Early Ford , let alone driving any distance is a chore once you get older.In warmer climes it may not be as bad as the heat keeps you supple but once the cold and damp sets in you turn into slo-mo mode.I have mates who have cars that never get used these days and others who have moved onto 50/60’s sedans.
The cut off date for entry to events has risen as numbers dropped off for pre49’s... the cars are still about but people don’t use them the same.Owning an Early Ford etc, seems to be enough to let you stay part of the community, using it or not.
So, getting back to the op, I think that the market for selling Hotrods is shrinking and those that have tastes that cover other/later years are moving into those.Couple in the fact that, like it or not,internal combustion engines are being phased out for electric motors, less gas sales means gas stations going out of business, oil companies losing money as sales drop or raising prices to compensate until no longer viable( they are already buying electricity and gas companies over here).... the eco nutters are getting more sway in government policy issues and “ old polluting vehicles”are right up there in their list of things to do( already exclusion zones in cities exist)... So, who is going to invest a large chunk of cash in a car that could become worthless ?
Registration documents have had an impact here... cars titled as all sorts, where an old log book has been used to build a car.The DVLA has got wise to this and cars are being inspected and documents seized in some cases... fibreglass replicas seem to be offered for sale but people don’t want them anymore.... a quick check online can tell you what it is registered as and nine times out of ten it’s ridiculous. Also if a legit old car has been modified or, axles,motor,body style etc, it can also lose its right to an original registration and severely affect its value. The first question most asked these days when looking to buy a modified car is “
What’s it registered as”?I don’t know about in other countries but that is the situation here...and has definitely had a big impact on the hobby.
"It Is What It Is" I always enjoy reading this type of thread, So Many Experts here, I Learn so much. LOL
Alot of the Old guys are dying off,
Little to no liquid cash anymore
Original parts are expensive and getting harder to find.
The younger guys like traditional cars more, because of the nostalgia.
Wished we lived back then kind of thing.
There’s lots of nice hundred thousand dollar chrome shiny cars left from the 80’s 90s and 2000’s that have little to no miles on them, and are cheap, when comparing to how much it cost to build, but it would be too hard to make them back into traditional, because there are molded shaved chopped ETC. It’s really hard to hide billet.
That’s my two cents,
grew up with my uncles and dad who lived eat and breathed hot rods.
my dads now 76, and his passion has died out, it’s sad he’s selling off everything a little at a time.
Still has never actually completed a car from the ground up. It’s always been work on one, and switch to another, back to the same other one, never actually finished one, but however, his hot rods were
his daily drivers not something that just sat under a cover.
Overly optimistic pricing.
Descriptions written while wearing rose colored glasses.
As the folks who own and those who desire these "hot rod" cars pass away, so will the market.
There are an awful lot of 32. 36,and 40 Fords for sale. Much softer than years ago.
I'm with you, 33Doll. Lower-budget "driver" cars seem to be an easy sell, I feel like a lot of the cars that aren't selling are these overdone builds that were top notch 20 years ago but now are kinda tacky/dorky, even if they were really expensive to build.
That's not a product of the hobby getting smaller, it's more about changing taste (and also dumping $50,000 into a build that only got driven 200 miles in 10 years because it was a "show car" was a tremendous waste of money, market be damned.)
Found Some more pics of 33, being used as a truck! It was close to when it was parked for good, kinda sad. But I do say this...my dad put over 100,000 miles on that dang thing! Still ran. he built that 53 Merc block Himself.
That’s all right I got a new 8BA block, and it’s gonna run good again!
A little more weathered than it used to be! But hey that’s in now!
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