The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 49' bomb!, Dec 16, 2019.
A lot of these shows are set up.
I don't follow the Hot rod market here in Brazil, so i will generalize my view to the whole old/vintage car scene, which reading this thread seems to be going the same way as up there in the US.
New generations want newer cars. I go regularly to car shows, and it seems the audience has the cars of their youth, or what was the cheapest to get into the car hobby (nothing wrong with that)
Up until about 20 years ago, "old cars" were American and European, up to the 60's, either stock or street roded. Nowadays, you barely see these cars in the shows anymore, why? They are mostly owned by the same guys, and they don't go out anymore. And who took their place? The now 40-50 year old guy, with the 40-50 year old (brazilian) cars, because: A) it reminds them of their youth, and B) since the older cars are either owned by old guys who won't sell or are way overpriced, the newer cars are what's left
Another factor, i believe, is the upbringing, i say this, because as a 19 year old (I'm among the youngest here), i know many people that are into cars, but only a few into older stuff, and what we have in common? We were all raised by parents who owned old cars. Getting into even more detail, the cars we own/like, reflect what we grew up with:
The son of our mechanic friend, grew up with 70's-80's Opalas (Brazilian car), what he owns now? A '80 L6 Opala
My ex-girlfriend, grew up with various Brazilian cars, she now owns a '70 VW Squareback
I grew up with Model As, 50's F100s, and jeeps, and now I'm building the Hot Rod truck with my father, restoring a 42 MB jeep, and constantly daydreaming about various traditional rods i could build with the parts my grandpa left behind.
The point i'm trying to get to is:
For the traditional Hot Rod scene to stay alive, the older guys have to try and spark interest in the new generations. And not only interest in cars, but specially in the traditional rods.
As for actually selling the cars, down here is the same as to you guys: whatever is the current fad is easier to sell, and tv shows and internet skyrocketed the price of everything (because "if that top quality, rare version car sold for 25k, mine of a similar model has to be worth almost the same right?")
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I know what you mean about drivable rigs. I've had my Catalina up on the Marketplace for a year. I've had a lot of people asking me if it runs and drives. All I did was remove some stuff like the carb, alt and plug wires just so I could do some paint work under the hood. I haven't had time for it so I tried to sell it pretty cheap as a project and because it isn't a running driving car people won't even come and look at it. Given 3 or 4 hours you could easily have it running. I think if people don't even want to do a little work on a car like this they don't even deserve to have a classic car. I thought I could just get it running and then sell it easier, maybe. To be honest if I do that I'll be tempted to just keep it for myself. I remember a time when people loved solid cheap projects. Not so much any more.
Where is it advertised exactly? Title? Does it at least start and can be driven around? If it does, I can post it on an Israeli FB group I'm on, they don't care about the 4 door vs. 2 door crap. A long shot but may be worth it.
Edited: assuming you want to sell it.
I wanted to purchase a 200 ft wide strip of land on the south border of our other place. The owners wanted to sell it. However they got a realtor to apprase it. $3500 a acre. I simply did not have that kind of money. Last year After ten years of having it listed with different realtors. The guys widow asked me what I could & would pay? I made a cash offer. and She after thinking it over for a week accepted. I paid her $5000 for 4 acres of land. The Ten acres that we already owned that ajoined it We bought for $4500 on terms owner finance $200 down and $75 a month. and when we bought it in 1976 everyone told us we paid too much and got cheated. Its like the $50 mule. A guys mule got Bog Spavin and was old and lame so it went to the glue factory. Planting season was coming up He was desperate for a mule. So he bought a replacement. Rode up to the country store on the New Mule. The loafers on the Dead Pecker bench out front all being expert judges of mules gave it a look over. taking note of every defect ad also the good points. They asked How much you pay fer it? the Reply was $50. They all exclaimed in unison you got took! Thats on the very best day with the wind behind it at the very most only a $25 dollar mule ! The mules new owner replied I bought him on credit. In unison the mule experts all exclaimed Cheep enough Cheep enough!!! That's the Barrett Jackson secret. They establish a line of credit for the buyers and ply them with free drinks served by scantily clad Babes. Use shill bidders or non existant phone bidders to pump up to the reserve price. The gambling casinos do the same thing.
Then you gotta believe her!
You know, re-reading the posts above I came to the realization that many/most of us are about 70. That means the HAMB has about 8 more years after which readership will number about 3 or 4.
Auctions got cleaned up a lot but there's still some, what I call, inbreeding. I "sell" my car to a pal in the biz for an outrageous price and we pay the pre-negotiated commissions (that does happen). Put it away and watch the rest of the similar inventory go up from the trickle down effect for a time. That's a dangerous game to play as the effect doesn't last, and sometimes doesn't work at all, so as always it's a big buck coin flip. The market research mopes are calling 2019 a bad year, some even using the term "blood bath" because nobody sold a $40M Ferrari 250 GTO or a $22M Duesenberg. It's like a company claiming a loss because last year they had a 27% profit but this year it was "only" 22%.
Let's not forget kids, this is an election year. No mods, I'm not getting political, I promise. However during that time disposable and discretionary income doesn't flow very easy. Last selling season you could see it begin, and at places like Hershey there's going to be a lot of hands in pockets next year with all but the rarest or lowest priced stuff going back home. It was like that in the '15-'16 season and will surely be the same again in spite of a roaring economy (although I think it won't be as bad as '16). Ebb and flow, as always, never changes. I've said it before in similar topics, look at the car market next to the stock market. Look at car sale volume vs prices. Activity crawls when the stock market roars. When it levels off or makes a correction (and it will) car activity picks up. We may never see the days like 2004 thru 2008 when you couldn't pay enough for a car and with the lessons learned we won't see the real blood bath of '09-'10.
In closing, there's something intangible that helps spark sales. It too isn't a fool proof thing but it helps. Be enthusiastic, positive, happy with whatever it is you're selling. Don't over do it like a plaid slacks used car huckster, just be sincere about how much you like it. That joy is contagious sometimes. I said sometimes. Without rhyme or reason even the best stuff will just sit. I have no answers for that. I have the best deal from coast to coast on a 47 Cadillac conv. It's a popular car within those ranks, this is well documented good one, it's even the 2nd best color (Lotus Cream). I still have it after a year and a 1/2. I'd need a winning lottery ticket to afford it myself as I'm selling it to clear an estate of good friend and her family. Were it mine you'd have to pry my cold dead fingers off the wheel, but damn it I still have it and it's priced right, priced to sell. Go figure...
Steven, Give that a Pontiac a weekend - get it running and visually cleaned up (wash it, put away all the loose stuff in the car and trunk, and vacuum it.
Unfortunately, a non-running car sets off the "RAN-WHEN-PARKED" alarms in a buyer's head. And they begin to wonder what else is wrong with the Pontiac.
I'll be honest, at times I dig that people aren't buying. If you're not building them to make a living and just do this as a hobbie, it helps bring prices down for the lower buck guys like myself. But it aucks having so few people into the traditional stuff. Seems like crappy fake "patina" and LS swaps are all the rage. I think the over abundance of trucks and cars like this have effected pricing. Restore a car perfectly for $30k and you might get your money back. Rat rodders cobbles something together for 5k and ask 18k. I blame rat rods.
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Am I the only one that thinks this is a great deal? All-steel Willys body for $3500, granted it's a 4 door but I could re-hash that thing into a 3W coupe and have a steel bodied Willys for the price of a 100K mile used Corolla.
Don't blame RR. Some are "cobbled"
Most are very sophicated machines,
Built with the best parts. RR are a
An expression of art! BLAME THE
GREEDY $$$$$ pigs. That put hot rod's
Out of reach! That's why hot rods
Why is it greedy? I'll bet someone would dearly love to have my 39 std tudor. Thanks to a few years of wrangling and flipping and bartering I don't really have a lot of cash in it. Should I ask only the inflation rate of my initial investment and that's the price? If 10 of them sell for $18-25K over the last 6 months what should I ask? Where does a lifetime rodder's duty lie in regard to pricing and values? Do we owe those behind us a super cheap price to make sure they get into this gig? As far as I'm concerned I'll never offer my 39 sedan for sale, but if someone offered me a price I'd be silly not to take (it'd have to be a lot silly) then should I say, "Oh no dear hot rod brutha, it's not worth that. I can't sell it to you for such a high price, that would make me greedy."
Once in a while I'll get asked what I paid for something because such mopes exist among us. I have a standard answer; "Nothing, and in reality I got paid to clean out the bldg and got to keep whatever I wanted out of it so I actually got paid to get it." Some will really squirm or try to make me out as a thief or greedy flipper, but there's a sophomoric lesson in that reply isn't there? I think McDonald's asks too much for a Big Mac and the greedy fuckers never wanna negotiate a better deal.
I understand that "RAN-WHEN-PARKED mentality but for what I'm asking for it even it had no motor in it it would be worth it. The problem is if I get it running I won't sell it. I've had it over 23 years. As a matter of fact I think I'm going to take it off the market right now. lol.
Forgive me ,,,but I have never seen a R R that was a work of art.
There might be a few out there,,,but I think they are the exception and not the rule.
Most I have seen truly deserve the moniker Rat.
And to be honest,,,I believe that is why the term is taboo here.
Now,,,a few guys drive some hot rods that are not quit what they should be yet.
And the ones that are in primer look great,,,,primer is fine,,,,but not rotten metal.
Man,,I was raised poor,,,,but we didn’t wear ragged clothes on purpose ,,or try to walk around dirty.
Somehow it became cool to look impoverished,,,there is nothing cool about it,,trust me.
I don’t even have a chassis yet,,because I am not to the point of having the spare cash at this time,,,,someday,,,the good Lord willing yes.
Like all markets,,,the hot rod market is supply and demand.
Speculation can easily drive up the prices from auctions and such.
Just hang loose,,,the price will eventually stabilize.
And besides,,,why would anyone think the car market is a great investment ?
I believe they all depreciate,,,at some point in time,,,usually as soon as you drive them off the lot.
I'm confused. You begin the thread by asking the question why hot rods aren't selling, and then 160 posts later you answer your own question, saying it's because of greedy $$$$ pigs putting hot rods out of reach. So what would be the solution to hot rods not selling? Lower the price, maybe?
Nothing wrong with being greedy. Greed is a great incentive. Folks who start buisnesses and employ others and produce a product do it for the money. Folks who take a job do it for the money. If not for greed many great inventions would never have made it into production. Calling someone greedy because they price their stuff at more than you want to pay. That like calling a high dollar call girl bad names because she refuses to sell you her services at crack hoe rates.
Well, as stated, lower the price, where
some people can afford to buy! As for
The "greedy", there's always going to be
People who want to take advantage of
No disrespect intended, but I think you are totally blind to what a prospective buyer justifiably thinks when reading your sales pitch. It may be true that all your Pontiac needs is a few hours work, bolting on parts that were removed to simplify painting.
What a potential buyer thinks, IF they have at least half a brain, “well, if it is so damn easy to fix, why haven’t you fixed it and made it both more appealing and prove what you claim about how good it will run/drive?” The potential buyer a) probably doesn’t want to buy a non-runner, b) doesn’t have the time to work on it, c) may not trust his/her own ability to “fix it easily”, and d) the really BIG REASON, they have absolutely no good reason why they should take your word for how great a car this is”.
You are “selling a pig in a poke”, an unknown quantity, a real risk for the buyer. Why in the world would a rational buyer want to take that chance?
In my opinion, offering a non-op anything for sale with the claim it is an ‘easy fix” is is the most certain way to make it ‘sale proof’ for anything more than parts value or scrap price.
Things that where once in demand sometimes the demand fizzles and sometimes the opposite happens. For over a Decade I could go to the impound auction and buy the OT 73 & newer square cab trucks for $100. nobody wanted them. The big salvage yards and even the Pull a Parts wanted the newer stuff. I would sell the engines and transmissions for cores. every so often sell a good running engine for a bit more dollars. Then in the last couple of years suddenly they came in demand. I have sold more dollars of parts from them this year than in the last decade. I even sold entire parts trucks and project trucks. and the demand for the 60 thru 66 stuff has shrunk. I think its partly due to what is promoted in the media and mostly due to the age of the generation doing the buying. They buy what was new or desired when they where a teen. My youngest son Zack he prefers the 67 thru 72 stuff. and my eldest was into Chevelles and now is into Power wagons. Pilot house dodges and WWII stuff. Me as long as its got a internal combustion engine I like it. And a steamer is Ok too.I think it generational and the HAMB generation is in decline.
Anything will sell for the right price,just figuring what is the right price between seller and buyer. When the stock market is high the cars go lower , Hot rod market is a little soft right now I believe because investors can make 10-15% in the stock market.. I recently bought a vehicle 10,000 less than asking price. I could have built the car for what I paid, but I am old and it would have taken me two years, I figure I got free labor and paid for what the cost of parts and cars would have been doing it myself.
Saw this post last week, but it took me a while to research this problem. I can explain it simply like this:
1. There is an ass for every seat.
2. Currently there are more asses than seats
3. Even though the research was written in 1938, the solution reached in this paper holds true today.
PS The seasonal variation is addressed in the last photo. Sell your car in the spring (april or May).
Regarding easy fixes, years ago I looked at a 55 Chevy , guy says it needs a battery & plug wires to run,said he didnt have the money. I told him I have a battery & wires in the trunk ,Ill install them to hear it run before I make a offer. Never heard so many excuses on why I couldnt do that, I walked away.
Woman hsd ford jubilee tractor & equiptment not running. wanted $1500. I saked if I could try and get it running before starting it. So We filed the points and drained the stale gas and installed the battery from my pickup. Ran real good. Went to pay her and she now wanted $2500. So I removed my battery. closed the points crossed the plug wires and stuck a round pebble in the fuel hose. Another guy a friend asked me about it. I told him the story. He bought it for $1000 and paid and got a bill of sale..And paid me to go with him to get it. We got it running again & loaded it on my trailer. Boy was she ever upset.
Hot Rods Aren't Selling Because There Are Lots Of Cars But We Are Running Out Of Olde Men...
Hot Rods Aren't Selling Because There Are Lots Of Cars But We Are Running Out Of Olde Men... Who are ready willing and able to buy them.
Why buy on the way down?
No disrespect taken. My sales pitch was not that it was an easy fix though I just said that on here. My ad describes it as an unfinished project that I have no time to finish. You're right if someone wants a running driving car this is not the car for them. I've bought many project cars and finished them myself. A lot of times getting really good deals on them because they weren't finished. I've also bought cars that were finished that ran great that two months later I had to pull the engine. You really never know what you are buying and why they are selling it. I usually don't take their word on anything. I just try to make an educated guess. Buyer beware has always been the rule I went by. I know there is a lot less people looking for projects than running ones but I thought there would be a few more than there are. I personally am always looking at projects because of the deals that can be had but that's just me. Like I said in the other post I think I may just keep it and finish it after the other two projects I have. The only reason for selling it was to help fund the other two. Looks like they will just take a little longer. Not really a big deal they are still moving right along.
Been looking over the cars for sale, only of hand full have sold! And all I see under the replies is BTT over and over.
Just been watching a marathon of full custom. With master car builder, Ian roussell . He builds all kinds of cars including traditional hot rods. Rat rods.
Cars from outer space,so to speak.
But it's nice to see a guy trying to keep hot rods alive. Hopefully it'll spark some interest and help the car market...
You don't pay for their services, you pay them to leave.
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