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Technical Who's running parallel leaf and 4 bar triangulated rear suspension?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Do it Over, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. Do it Over
    Joined: Dec 25, 2017
    Posts: 457

    Do it Over
    Member
    from NYC, NY

    Looking for pics of each installed. Which are better brands/fitting ease of installation? Working on a 35 5W coupe.

    Sent from my SM-T377V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  2. A triangulated 4 link is gonna be fabricates. Doubt you'll find a bolt on setup. And tag for interest..

    Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk
     
  3. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,241

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    IMO... 4 bar and a panhard yes, triangulated no, it restricts adjustment.
     
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  4. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,942

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I didn’t think that 4 bar or triangulated or panhard is needed with parallel springs . I guess I’m misunderstanding the issue that has been ask about .


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  5. robtlor
    Joined: Dec 7, 2010
    Posts: 118

    robtlor
    Member
    from Lincoln NE

    Parallel spring will bind with trianguled 4 bar. Could maybe do 4 bar setup with parallel spring, still might bind. Most 4 bar setups have coil over shocks with large rubber bushings in them to not bind.
     
  6. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,766

    sunbeam
    Member

    With a 4 bar and Parallel springs you need to have the axle floating at the springs or you will have in effect a 6 bar and all pivots would need to be the same leight.
     
  7. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 31,577

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm thinking that he should have put "OR" in the title rather than "AND" .
     
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  8. justabeater37
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,574

    justabeater37
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    He's asking for pics of ea, so I am guessing he is not running them together. That would just be silly. I don't have pictures, and unfortunately they closed, but the Chassis Engineering parallel leaf kit was pretty slick and an easy install.
     
  9. justabeater37
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,574

    justabeater37
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Indeed proper conjunctions do make for less confusion. This is the end of the HAMB grammar session for today.
     
  10. I no longer have photos of the setup in my truck because they were on my computer that crashed, but I used a Posies parallel leaf spring setup on mine. I like it because you don't need any other parts when using parallel leafs. Posies setup also gives you different positions in the front mount so you can change the ride level up or down later on. They angle slightly inward at the front for stability.
     
  11. How about a cantilever/four-bar hybrid that works just fine? Upper arms are rear cantilever springs on a '29 AA and the lower arms are same-length one-inch bars on rubber-bushed ends.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  12. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,641

    thirtytwo
    Member

    IMG_4930.JPG

    Seems like a really long bracket on a non boxed frame with no added support ...lower link in single shear.. I think some of that design may need some re-work
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  13. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,784

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

  14. rab71
    Joined: Jan 1, 2007
    Posts: 571

    rab71
    Member

    [​IMG]. My roadster does. I don't recommend it. Only because the ride is quite rough. But it handles great actually. Like a gokart. But wear a kidney belt


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

    I should clarify. My front suspension is quarter ellipticals with split wishbones. The rear suspension upper are quarter elliptical springs, the lower link as if it were a four link.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  15. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,750

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  16. wingman9
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 804

    wingman9
    Member
    from left coast

    triangulated for bar in my '32 Chevy 401 030.jpg
     
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  17. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,937

    LM14
    Member Emeritus
    from Iowa

    Here's a triangulated 4 bar in a P&J '32 chassis
    SPark

    PJ18.jpg PJ6.jpg PJ7.jpg PJ9.jpg
     
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  18. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 693

    AmishMike
    Member

    Never understood the angled design. Raced GM factory design after stiffing up big soft rubber bushings. Try to explain: top angled bars move up & down away from each other but steel does not stretch so must depend on soft bushing before binds up. Would ask "wingman9" to remove temp steel/shock mounts & jack up rear to actually see how far it goes before binds & lifts frame. Hope this makes sense. Tks
     
  19. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,173

    Relic Stew
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    A properly designed triangulated 4 link shouldn't have any bind. Bushings may limit travel as they can't twist much, so a spherical ball or heim joint is better for a large range of movement.

    This video tries to explain. It's low image quality and off-topic vehicle, but does a good job of showing how the links move.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  20. Dino 64
    Joined: Jul 13, 2012
    Posts: 2,282

    Dino 64
    Member
    from Virginia

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  21. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,101

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    I'm going to run triangulated 4 link in my 31` I'm going with inboard mounted homemade quarter elliptical springs. Running shackles off of rear housing.

    When I first designed my frame I had looked at running the 1-3/4" elliptical springs inside the frame rails at the top, this way you'd never see anything but the lower bars if you looked under it. But being a driven street car I decided it's a lot of work, now if I ever build a show car I would pursue it. Already have it worked out in my head and hate to waste all that brain power and space! :)
     
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 20,869

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As has been mentioned, with proper design, there is no bind. This setup didn't depend on bushing flex to do this. There were spherical joints on all ends:
    547412_617436271622658_1723719229_n.jpg
    Diagonal links remove the requirement for a fifth locating link. Better ride, and cheaper to make on the assembly line.
     
  23. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 693

    AmishMike
    Member

    Great explanation with swiveling rod ends- thanks much. Rod ens swivel believe proves my point of rubber bushings are where/what allows angled link to work. Looks like you have rod ends in both ends of top link bar so swivel allows tons of movement in rod & rear. Small rubber bushings not so much me thinks. Understand he is give harsh street ride. Building 4 link & panhard with heim at one end & bushing at other in hopes of movement with little quieter ride. Tks again
     
  24. Dave Friend
    Joined: Dec 24, 2017
    Posts: 71

    Dave Friend

    Hi
    I put a ford 9 inch with a triangulated four bar with bushing, with transfer spring in my 1930 coupe. Before the spring went in I moved the axle through the complete range of motion with out any binding.
    Regards
    Dave
     
  25. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 693

    AmishMike
    Member

    How much suspension travel do you have? Did you move it until bind and how far was that. I am just trying to understand how good is this design with bushings. Enjoying all the discussion on this subject
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 20,869

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Is this enough?
    20120816_162002.jpg
    Granted, this is one of my offset link equal span designs, designed to accommodate multi-level operation of hydraulic suspension, at freeway speed, but you get the idea. These bars have urethane bushings in all positions.
     
  27. Dave Friend
    Joined: Dec 24, 2017
    Posts: 71

    Dave Friend

    Hi
    I have about 3 inches of travel up on each side on my high boy. Down a lot, I never measured, but I would say over a foot or more. Because of the width of my 30 frame, the top bars went to the top of the banjo of the 9 inch. The bars top and bottom are the same length and I did not want to shorten the top bars. I lost a little of the trunk floor. Also I notched the frame for the axle. I would post pictures but I am in Nicaragua until April as it is toooo dam cold back home in Canada. When I get back I hope to Down load my pic if I can figure how to do it. If I can Help more let me know. The whole set up is easy to do just tack weld and twist the whole thing in every direction to check it. hope this Helps
    Regards
    Dave
     
  28. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 693

    AmishMike
    Member

    2 more great responses from Dave- & gimpy-- but ( sorry to be anal a-hole ) how much does center section rise up & down if over speed bump not just the wheel ends. Have tried to build miniature of wood ( no bushings ) & just does not seem to work. Just trying to understand from better builders. Tks
     
  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 20,869

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ahh, and now I am again up against the problem with trying to express geometry, with text.

    If both wheels go up, then, naturally, the center section goes up the same amount.

    If one wheel does, or both do, but to different heights, then it is an angle calculation (all numbers rounded).

    Let's say that you have an overall width, including wheels, of 68-inches, with the center section dead-center at 34-inches.

    If the left wheel goes up 4-inches, and the right wheel does not go up, then the center-section rises 2-inches (give-or-take a few thou).

    If the left wheel goes up 6-inches, and the right wheel does not go up, then the center-section rises 3-inches (give-or-take a few thou).

    The center of the axle will shift side-to-side under cycling, if viewed from the rear, but not by much in a conventional street setup.

    Even in the extreme, it does not move by far:
    25515_112336765465947_1380420_n.jpg
     
  30. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 693

    AmishMike
    Member

    Understand heim joins will allow/accept more movement. I am questioning design with bushings at both ends of upper links such as show above in Brookville and P&J's pictures when whole axle rises ( center section ) not just one wheel end. Think rough railroad crossing at speed. Loving discussion hope OK with other readers
     

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