Hot Rods Wheel Width history question - when did they start getting wider?

I was looking at the below picture in the Tri-Five pic thread and the above question occurred to me (again for the millionth time)... when did the wider wheels start taking over for hot rod/custom builds?

I ask because true historical photos of many/most cars (except dragsters) seem to show 5", 6" & some 7" wheels up to about the HAMB cut-off of '64/'65. Those sizes seem to have been the norm. When did the 8" & wider wheels start becoming the standard for hotrods & customs, daily driven or not? Was it the mid-ish 60's when the aftermarket wheels (Cragars, Ansens, Raders/MT's, ET's, etc) were becoming more available and popular for the for the non-racing crowd? Or was it nearer to or in the 70's? Was it something born out of the muscle car era?

I can't help but ponder if the HAMB's fascination for historically respectful builds has perhaps been a bit casual or tolerant to the wider wheels that may have not been as widespread as compared to the HAMB cut-off.

Thoughts? Opinions? Historical info or perspective?



Gotta56forme/Scott

 

Corvette didn't get an 8" wide rim until 1969, I don't think any tires existed that would fit that rim prior to that, unless it was some specialized racing piece. Even 7" wide wheels are kinda wide for an early 60's era.

 

Check out these catalogs
https://vintagewheelcatalogs.com/
Cool stuff.

 

I remember an article in Car and Driver, or Motor Trend, in 1968. It was a Comparison between a 68 Z28 and a tunnel port Mustang, where the Mustang was wearing unheard of F70 14 tires . Earlier than that I only saw bigger tires on race cars. The moonshiners would use ambulance wheels to get bigger rubber on their haulers. That the History as I know it, I'm sure there is more pre 68 options

 

Not entirely true. Yes, as far as street tires went, there were no wide options until the wider Indy tires showed up around '64, quickly followed by 'wide ovals'. But M&H (maybe Casler too?) started producing larger, wider slicks for the increasingly powerful dragsters around 1960, followed by Goodyear a few years later. But some of these leaked over into street use (practicality be damned) for 'the look' which may have been part of the push for wider 'normal' tires.

I recall a local guy around '62 or so that ran a set of wide slicks on the street for a short time. To get around the illegality of running 'bald' tires, he cut three grooves in the tread with a truck tire regrooving tool. Of course, they still weren't worth a damn in the rain and after going in the ditch a few times he took them off...

 

I was at University of Illinois in 1964. I was invited to an S.A.E. meeting at the College of Engineering where the guest speaker was an engineer from Firestone.
I asked some questions about the new Wide Oval tires, which surprised him, as they were so new at the time.

 

The first 70 series Firestone Wide Oval arrived on the scene, probably in 1966 or 1967, followed quickly by the Goodyear Polyglas GT in the late sixties. Seventy series Wide Ovals were a factory option on 67 Mustangs, and probably others. The sixty series then tires became standard on the Boss 302 and Boss 429 Mustangs. As far as the Car and driver 68 Mustang /Z28 article, I still have that somewhere. It was one of the first “reveals” of sixty series tires.

Prior to that, station wagons often had slightly wider rims than sedans, but tire section width aspect ratio was closer to 80 rather than the 70 and then sixty numbers that became common as muscle cars matured.

The older, taller aspect ratio tires really couldn’t utilize a wider rim than six inches. A bigger tire just got taller. Even the early aftermarket wheels were often only 7” wide. I don’t remember much in the line of backspacing options being available from the aftermarket, at least not on a regular basis.

By the early seventies giant L60-15 tires and ten inch rims became popular for the “grasshopper look, since those tires and wheels wouldn’t fit in the wheel wells of cars designed for smaller tires.

 

My slightly "biased" $.02:
In my opinion, every car made in the '50s needed bigger tires.
In the mid '60s when I started playing with "old" cars, (1950s), I always
put bigger tires on the wheel of the car than it came with.
2 examples: 1952 Chevy with 7-50-15s replacing the 6-70-15s that were stock.
1954 Dodge with L-78-15 replacing 7-10-15s that were stock.
My idea was that the bigger the tire the fuller the wheel well,
and the bigger the tire in height the faster the cars' top end.
My Chevy was a stone anyway but looked better.
My '54 Dodge Red Ram Hemi, with a 2 speed torqueflyte
would reach about 50 mph with smaller tires in low and about 60 mph with bigger tires.

 

You have to be careful when 'translating' tire sizes. The sizing calculation has changed four times since the '50s and using most equivalency charts will usually result in a smaller diameter tire with a wider cross-section. Many are based on rim size and load-carrying rating, not actual size. There could also be fairly large differences in actual size for a given size between manufacturers and even between tire lines from a single maker. That's still true today, although the differences aren't as large. A 6.70-15 became a 7.75-15 which became a 195-15 which became a F78-15 which became a 205/75R-15...

Tire Size Helper (turbinecar.com)

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree.
My examples were what the sizes were in the 1960s, nothing newer than that time,
when I changed the sizes about 1967.
To me, Bigger is always better!

 

1965 ad

 

The guys on the old dirt tracks were playing with wheel offset and width from about the late 50s on, according to the old timers I was working with way back in the early 70s.

Back then the wheels were usually in the 4 1/2" to 5 1/2" width range. Light trucks usually had wider and more heavy duty wheels, and the auto builders started putting those wheels on station wagons and luxury cars, but those supplies were pretty limited. The dirt track guys discovered that if you mount the same size tire on a wider wheel, the over all tire height was shorter. A shorter over all tire height got the motor RPM up faster off the corners, and varying the width and the offset could help the car corner better. Most of the guys were running tire tubes, so tire fit on the wheel wasn't as critical as a tubeless tire was limited to. A lot of the fast dirt track guys were widening their own wheels and moving the centers in or out on the wheel rims by the late 50s. Playing with tire size, wheel widths, and wheel offset made a huge difference on how the car went around the oval tracks.

The drag guys picked up on the wheel width and overall tire height, and the tire manufacturing guys found out what the racers were doing and provided tires to accommodate, then the wheel manufactures got into the act. The things that happened on the dirt tracks and the drag strips flowed over onto the streets, but the street action moved at a slower pace. I'm betting that most of the fast street cars of the late 50s and early 60s had modified wheels and bigger tires, buy it was more impressive to talk about cams and carburetors then tires and wheels, until the shiny mags started showing up. How often do we hear about the "chrome reversed wheels"? How many were also widened? If you want to beat the other guys, you can't always give away all your speed secrets.

Most of the tires and wheels on cars from the mid 50s up until the mid 60s were too small for the cars.

 

1965 dated, who knows when the car was actually photographed for the feature, stop stirring the pot

 

Hello,

If the original Gas Coupe and Sedan class was for street legal hot rods, then this ad was created in late November 1960. All of the parts were still sitting in our backyard garage since September 1960 under a large canvas tarp. My brother and I were still contemplating going to the next level of our involvement in drag racing, an Altered Coupe or Roadster, using the same stuff we had under the 40 Willys Coupe.

We had built two versions of our 1940 Willys Coupe. The first was a 283 SBC motor with an Isky Cam, Jahns Pistons, ported/polished heads and a LaSalle transmission attached to a 56 Chevy Positraction rear end. The Bruce Slicks we used were the ones we had for the 58 Impala. They were 15 inch rim size and 7 inches wide. They fit perfectly under the 58 Impala during time trials.
time trial runs at Lion's Dragstrip 1958
But, as our Impala racing days were coming to a close, we started building the 1940 Willys Coupe. We started using the 7 inch wide slicks under the stock wheel openings of the Willys with plenty of clearance. We could have gone an inch or two more width in slicks, underneath, without having to radius the wheel openings. But, the slicks were expensive.

It was during our time we were finished running the 283 SBC with Strombergs to a total rebuild to 292 c.i. SBC motor with all blower spec parts. Then a 671 Isky-Gilmer Blower Kit and Reath Automotive reworked 671 supercharger to top it off.

My brother and I had the 9 inch wide custom 15 inch Chevy bolt pattern wheels made by Henry’s Machine Shop in Bixby Knolls. It was going to be the next level of traction as soon as we saved up for the much wider M&H slicks wide, meaning 9-10 inches. But, since the wider Halibrands would be a perfect fit, there was no money for that level of purchase.
Similar set Isky-Gilmer SBC set up

Jnaki


So, if one is to believe our 40 Willys Coupe with the 671 SBC motor was a fully functioning street legal hot rod. Yes, it was labeled as such and certified as class coupe correct by the tech inspection team at Lion’s Dragstrip. This was April 1960. We raced the 671 coupe for several months working on getting it running right in B/Gas Class. As per weight to motor specs.
Wider cheater slicks provided and sold by
Bill Moxley in the Lion's Dragstrip pits, next to our set up location. Photo + information provided by Greg Sharp.

When we finally were getting all of the power to lower e.t. and top speeds, we decided to go to the C/Gas Class with additional steel plates, welded into place on the trunk floor over the rear axle. Now, the weight was directed onto the rear end and slicks.

Note:

The extra weights had to be welded in place and not just bolted down. So, it was part of the rigidity and strengthening of the whole rear chassis section, from frame rails to rails. Now, with the same 292 c.i. 671 SBC motor, it was class legal in the C/Gas Coupe and Sedan group for National Speed and E.T. records. We lowered our E.T. times to come close to the record. 12.40 was the record, our best was 12.60 E.T.

Note 2:

Our friend with the 57 Chevy ran our 7 inch wide Bruce Slicks easily, with plenty of clearance. We were going to put on a pair of wider Chevy rims and 8 inch newer slicks. It would have fit easily. The 9 inch rims we had made were a little too wide for underneath slicks and no wheel arch cut outs. But, who in their right mind would butcher a perfectly good 57 Bel Air Hardtop for a pair of wide slicks?

It was not mid 60s or 70s. It was the end of 1959 and into the 1960-61 years. 1966 and later information did have wider rims and tires in various publications. But by then, Not HAMB approved, the real street legal hot rods had morphed out of drag racing and disappeared. The late 60’s funky builds went into crazy styling and odd projects. YRMV

 

I believe Anthony, [ I'd drive it] and JNAKI win the day.

Ben

 

Good thread. I learn more every day here.

 

I have the OG set of 14" wheels for my car, in good shape. Bead to bead they are 4.5". If we wanted a wider stock wheel, we would pick up used station wagon wheels. Some were reversed, 6" or 7" wide. The earliest I recall came out around 1962-ish.

 

Jnaki again proves a point that some people forget, just because you couldn't buy it over the counter doesn't mean is wasn't done.

Infact it seems in early hot rodding that the backyard crews were building parts and pieces loong before the aftermarket stepped in to produce many things.

I guess some have the idea that it had to be "popular" to be traditional, whereas I thought traditional hot rodding was making something fast and your own even if you had to build your own parts to do it......


..

 

I still have one or two of the old bias tires that were on my Lincoln when I got it laying around here somewhere. H-78 15”. Tallest 15” tires I’ve ever seen. One old guy told me that was the size used on ambulances and hearses. No idea if that is true, but he was around back then and I wasn’t……

 

Only JNAKI. He lived it.

 

How easily people forget that "the performance industry" was started after other people had already put down the foundation of creating things from ideas, testing them, modifying them, and sorting out things that worked, and things that didn't work.

Then smart guys with skills and money started refining and producing the proven parts and then sold those parts to anyone with enough money to buy them. Those are the guys that started the performance industry. Many of those aftermarket sellers started out by selling things they (may have copied or) built and tested themselves. Before it showed up on the market, it had to be proven that it worked, at least at some level of improvement over what else was available. It was after the performance industry got the ball rolling that some of them in the industry ventured into expanding unproven ideas. That double edge sword both moved performance industry forward but at the same time stifled many individuals from attempting to follow through on their own ideas.

The hard facts are, by the time you first saw those parts advertised in some company's ads, they were already functioning on the different regional race tracks. Parts in an ad posted in Sept of 1965 were probably already being used successfully at a track someplace a couple years before that. The company that posted the parts available for sale had already managed to set up and produce those parts in enough quantity they could offer them for sale. That was probably a couple year process back then.

 

I had a set of L78-15 tires on an old Chevy, the J was also popular on big cars.

 

Just remembered this trick.
Weld a 15 inch '50s Buick wheel rim "reversed" to a Ford center hub.
For a while the Buick was the widest wheel you could find.

Here is an old thread on it from the good old HAMB!

FORD CENTER / BUICK HOOP REVERSE WHEEL

 

That H78 size was a popular tire for ambulances and hearses, and was also used on some of the larger GM 9 passenger wagons. The 'real' ones for the 'commercial' vehicles was a 6-ply rated bias-belted tire (four carcass layers and two tread belts) and was the best truck tire I ever had on my F100 in those pre-radial times. Rode/handled way better than the more-common 6-ply bias truck tires available at the time. But they were discontinued...

 

Here is a Sears ad with common tire sizes

63 or 64

 

I honestly never paid a lot of attention on my own research on era stuff to wheel width. But any time I plan out a build I tend to hope for 6" wide wheels as in my eyes they just look right. Even on my 53 Bel Air that actually has 80s Caprice steel wheels. While 7" wide versions of the same wheels are readily available (cop spec Caprice) the few I tried in the 7" width just didn't look right. And my eye for proper looks on wheel size comes from looking at countless custom 49-54 Ford, 49-54 Chevy, and similar year dodge products done as customs and hot rods from 1958-1962(my target era). Not sure this is an answer to your question but it IS my two cents lol

 

We built our own wide wheels using Buick rims and changing the center to fit whatever center you needed to fit your hotrod! I can't remember the width of the Buick rims anymore but they were the widest we could find in the junkyards in the early 60s. I know they were at least 7" wide!

 

The first time I remember "wide" wheels from the factory was when I was looking at a brand new 1966 Comet Cyclone with a 390 in it. I was at the Lincoln-Mercury dealership and the salesman could hardly contain himself. He started the car and turned the steering wheel thus exposing the full tread width of the front tire. He went on and on about the 7 inch tread width and the "super wide" 6 inch wheels they were mounted on from the factory ! At the time I was driving a 63 Galaxie 500 with cheater slacks on the back and ran 5.5 wide wheels.

 

When it came out in 1964, part of the GTO package was "wide" 14x6 wheels. The Tempest and Lemans got 5 inch wide wheels.