Technical Wheel widening question

I have two options I’m thinking about and trying to figure the strongest, safest way. Option one is turning the center down a 1/4” to fit into a wider hoop. The second option is to cut add a strip into the stock wheel to get the desired width.

Which one sounds safer and able to last everyday radial tire stress for decades.

A little background, they’re 16” Chevy car/truck wheels with the hubcap clips (40’s-50’s). I want to keep the clips/caps but need them 6” wide. The tire I want to run is crowning on the 4.5” I have now (also I believe adding to the steering wondering issue) and 5” is the widest stock option which isn’t enough. According to the wheel shop the centers are too big to fit into anything else. They’re getting in one last hoop to check, but it sounds like I’m left with these 2 options.

 

Years ago I turned centers on a lathe to a smaller diameter for exactly this purpose. That is the method I would choose any day over splitting a rim and adding a ring, especially with common stamped centers, not artillery style.....though I know that has been done too.

Ray

 

Agree with Ray, splitting a wheel and trying to add a section to it and having it true, balance, etc without whatever necessary fixturing a place like Stockton or someone would have, could be a real wasted effort. although when I was talking to them, (Stockton) a few years ago about widening some wheels, it very much sounded like they were just going to use new hoops with the same centers.

 

I have sacrificed a set of wheels in the past to make a wider set for stock cars. It took 8 to make 4. And a lot of welding to get it to hold air. I had access to a huge engine lathe at work at the time. Lots of fun when the outside ring parted off... I would tend to go with turning down your centers.

 

Check with Rally America. They cut down some centers and made me some 8 inch wheels in the past and later made some 16X6 wheels. Everything ran true and balanced good.

 

Wheel blanks usally run less that $40 just add your center.

 

Look here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=widen+steel+wheels

Nick

 

Let me state that I'm not doing the work, as I don't have the fixtures or the skill . The wheel shop is getting in some new 16" hoops that may or may not have a big enough inside diameter for my centers (I'll find out in a couple of days).

They suggested to turn the centers down, I just wanted to make sure this was a structurally sound option. I figured the factory thought it needed that much material for the wheel, cutting some off wasn't a good idea.

They have LOTS of used wheels (and wheel pieces) there, he said he checked imports and domestic and nothing had a large enough center area (even the '60s 8 lug hoops are too small).

 

Somewhere in the last year I saw a thread on a fellow who found some late model GM truck (or maybe it was a MOPAR Minivan) wheel that had an inside diameter a bit larger than typical and it fit the centers he was using without modification.

Your wheel shop may not want to spend the time doing it, or you may not want pay them for the time, but try this. Cut a picece of welding rod or some such to the length that matches the wheel center diameter......take a trip to your friendly local,salvage yard and search for a wheel with the correct in side diameter.....take a bottle of water and a ham sammich......make it fun!

 

Collins? Would he be the one to also turn the center down or you've got to go to another sub for that? Also, put me down as well for turning down the center. It'll be interesting to see how the slots will look doing that.

 

Yup, Johnny it's Collins. I was thinking about making a measuring tool and hitting the junkyar.....I mean "recyclers" . Even start trying local wheels on craigslist or offer up. I still need one more wheel so nothing is set in stone.

 

Ok, I did some LOOSE measuring, it looks like it's 13.65" and most hoops (aftermarket online) are at 13.48-13.50. So an .15", that's turning it down .075"

The slots will be smaller.....I just don't want it to look like a smoothie. Also, the bent in tabs (where the rivets would go) will be pretty thin or non existent.

 

I did a set of wide fives last summer. I went to my local u pull it and rummaged thru there rim pile until I found the perfect size. I ended up finding a dodge mini van wheel that was the perfect hoop for my wide five center.That would be my suggestion.

 

Collin's made it clear to me he wouldn't do riveted wheels on a 16x5 I wanted duplicated using a later hoop from him and a early center I had. That being said, is he doing riveted wheels now? As for the "bent tap" as you put it. Why not just remove it completely so as to only have a disc so to speak and weld into place on the hoop? Run it by him to see what he says about.

 

All the wheels I've had done or outright bought from him have been welded, even if it uses an old riveted center. Are you wanting him to re rivet an old center to a new outer?. If so, I've never asked him to do that so I don't know. He did say they've machined down the center (on a 16") to fit inside of a 15" hoop. But totally machining out the slot will make the center too small for a new 16" hoop.

I'm going to go to pick your part after xmas (40% off again) and start checking wheels. I could make a hoop the size I need (more like a plug), heat up the center of the new hoop and push the slug through. Widening it the 5/32" or so I need, then weld the center in.........sounds like too much work vs turning down the centers.

 

I didn't come right out and ask him. I bought a complete wheel for the hoop from him and it was a rivet type later Ford pick-up 5'' wide. I said I'd put my center also a rivet type 40's Ford into it. That's when he cut me short and said I don't do riveted wheels. But I didn't ask.

 

Persistence pays off . I went to a Pick your Part and found the 1 set of wheels that would work. 16x6 with the right inner diameter. I found 2 on the ground, 1 in the bed and 1 still on the rear axle of a 3/4 ton sheet glass transport bed (the cab of the truck and frame where gone). 3rd time this year I was lucky at the yards.

 

I'm going to get my last 2 wheels Monday and I'll ask him about riveted wheels. I bet he doesn't want to do riveted hoops as they might leak. Mine are riveted centers on solid hoops....but I'll ask.

 

This is the set i did this last summer

 

This was in a Hot Rod Magazine 1967....

Sent from my QTASUN1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Back when I was a kid with more time than money, I widened quite a few steel wheels for my low-buck dirt latemodels. I used a front hub as a spin fixture for a rim, and made another fixture that I hose clamped my oxy/acetylene cutting torch to keep it's position steady. One hand operated the lever on the torch, the other hand rotated the rim. I was pretty good with a torch, the cuts came out near perfect.

I made circular hoops for widening from flat stock. A homemade fixture was used to hold the hoops in place, it allowed me to spin the parts by hand to check/adjust how true they were before applying a few tack welds. Working from the center out to keep things as true as possible, finishing a weld before locating/truing/welding the next section.

I was basically taking old swap meet 15x8 stock car wheels cores and turning them into 15x14 with beadlocks. I used this method to split off bead parts to make homemade beadlock rings as well. I also had a rotating fixture so that I could spin pcs of flat plate to create the flat part of the circular ring that the bolts go thru. A hole in the center to locate the plate in the fixture, torch clamped to a separate fixture, rotated the plate by hand until the cut was complete.

Here's a picture of my dirt latemodel after the body was pulled off at the end of the season. I built this car from scratch with a backwards mounted BB Mopar engine and a homemade transmission with an internal clutch, it's also got a set of my homemade steel wheels/beadlocks. As you can see, they are pretty beat up from contact...


Here's another one of my homemade dirt latemodels, this one had a 4 rotor rotary engine for power. It's got homemade wheels/beadlocks as well...



Grant

 

They're not totally done, so this Saturday. With cheap FWD steel wheels in various sizes and widths you can do almost anything you need for a street car. Also with a lot of Pick your Parts around here having "wheel Mondays" (wheel/tire for around $11 plus fees). For me to make a fixture, dedicate a spot and doing the labor of taking apart 2 wheels to make 1 (also the labor to install/weld)....the $45 labor per wheel sounds good to me. When I get more time/space, I think I'll give it a try.

 

Ok, they'll do riveted wheels. If the hoop is also riveted he'll weld up the holes and then weld in the center. The thing the WON'T do is to re rivet the wheels together (although he said he knows of a place that will).

Collins Wheel in Bellflower, Ca.

 

Did you try Wheelsmith? If you go to the show they're there....

 

I've talked to them in the past and they just deal with new wheels. For me I wanted the stock center (which they don't have anything like it). For the 40 Ford style wheels they do. I've got new wheels before but I didn't like all the stamping marks and I'm cheap .

 

" I was thinking about making a measuring tool and hitting the junkyard.....I mean "recyclers"

I was thinking the same thing so I fab'd up a 12&5/8th" piece of 3/8th steel rod for 15" wheels. I take it with me to U-pull-it as a go-no go tool. put it in the back side of a 15" wheel rim and if it fits, great! I can use that rim to make my new wheel.

 

Stockton Wheel did had some issues in the past. But they took the centers out of my 16 1/2” put them in a 16 inch hoop a little wider. I kept the same back spacing and original hubcaps.

The price, the workmanship and turnaround was good.

 

I post earlier about a set of wide fives I built this summer. I now have tires on them and you can tell the width added to the rears. Fronts are stock width and rears are 6 1/2" wide.

 

As a possible highjack of this thread, neat car, great looking work, but why backwards?
Pete

 

Reverse rotation. Supposed to make the torquing of the engine work for you instead of against you when turning left.