The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jive-Bomber, Nov 9, 2021.
Sailboat; definition: "A large hole in the water you pour money into".
Interesting article from Hagerty in January 2019 about Nomad values
I don't really care, but I'm either a Vulture or paranoid.
this may get yanked, but my late-model pickup is now worth eight grand more (trade-in) than i paid when it was new in 2017!
It seems I usually buy high, sell low and make it up on volume...
Seriously, if you're in this just to make money, you're not really a car guy IMO. I buy cars because I see the possibilities in them, whether it's styling or performance. If I really like a car, selling it to make a profit isn't on my radar. Not to say I won't ask what I think is market value on the occasions I do sell, but that's never my motivation; it's leaving for other reasons. The only reliable way to make money I've seen is to buy one while it's still 'unwanted' then keep it long enough for the perceived value to climb, usually years. Recovering whatever money you've put into it in the meantime is unlikely. That's why guys buy 'finished' cars; the seller/builder takes the loss.
Henry Ford pretty much invented hot rodding. His low-cost V8 brought performance to the masses and spawned the entire hobby/industry. Prior to that, performance was mostly limited to the well-off who could afford the limited number of 'performance' vehicles available. With the advent of huge $$$$$ electric 'hypercars' that can shame any street-legal ICE-powered vehicle, the cycle is about to begin again.
All this will be moot in not too many years anyway. I'm probably old enough that I won't live to see it, but a lot of you younger guys will. Once EVs become the norm, these dinosaur-powered cars we love will become more trouble than they're worth. When you're buying fuel in 5 gallon cans at outrageous prices because 'gas stations' as we know them no longer exist, what then? If the hobby is to survive in any form, I suspect that 'Tesla swaps' and 'electric crate motors' will become the new normal.
There's cataclysmic changes coming, whether they're good or bad remains to be seen.
This is the side I worry about. The analytical side of me understands the why... but man, it's heartbreaking.
That being said, if there's a will, there's a way... and while I might not be all that talented at much, there's no overestimating my will when it comes to old cars.
Eh, I've been hearing 'the end is near' cataclysmic change stories since I was a kid. I'll not hold my breath.
I bought my ride for 15k. If it's appreciated, I don't know how much, probably not a ton. Not that I'd sell it anyway... Certain cars have gone nuts though. 60s mustangs are selling high for sure. All the 60-70s muscle cats seem to be.
The values that surprise me are the early stock/restored cars. I've seen some great stock early V8 cars go at crazy low prices. On the flip side are the early trucks - the market is really hot in this space. Truck prices are way above what I would seem reasonable in comparison to cars.
I never understood the "I'LL DIE WITH IT" mentality. On my death bed I wont care if I have a garage full of 32 Fords. They're just cars.... sell them while its hot, buy'em back when its low. You'll ALWAYS find another one, that's a fact.
The biggest thing I have seen with the market is the gap between a project and a finished cars is almost completely gone. I have been noticing that project that still need floors or rockers replaced are asking and going for what a 30ft driver is bringing now. You really see that in the C10 market right now as patina trucks are hot so people are somehow fine with spending $15-20k for a truck that need rockers and cab corners. Same thing with most other Chevy's (I dont follow later Ford or Mopar markets much). Same thing with pre war Fords. People asking $20-40k for a steel Roadster or Coupe that needs everything is just nuts.
I've watched it go back and forth through the years... The 4 door deals are gone these days... The tri 5 market has petered out though in my area, the street rod and pro street junk is resurfacing some... I can smell the tweed interior from here.
I think we just watched in the last 10 months the largest inflation ever to take place... I don't see the prices coming down for anything from here again... The dollar is now worth less... Car dealers not cutting deals, 1 price sales, dealers making sticker seem like a deal... The MSRP on vehicles went up from 2021 to 22... Food has gone up... The game has changed... The collector car market will drop at some point as it always does after the surge of money spent lately... But the low will never be like the low was a few years ago.
Assets are better to have than a huge bank account... interest on a 50k bank account in 10 years, vs 50k worth of 40s- to 90s pickups and cars... I would take the cars any day...
Ryan, the problem is it's impossible to stop the march of progress, try as you might. We're all basically Luddites here, trying to preserve a bygone era in varying degrees but technology is going to roll over us whether we like it or not. The one bright spot IMO in this is the industry is aware this time, they're already introducing suitable parts. I saw a news blip at NHRA, they're bringing out some EV classes with more planned, so the hobby may survive, just not in it's present form.
There's no doubt that some vehicles will survive no matter what, but without changes they'll probably go back to being rich men's toys.
And at the risk of sounding political, the really scary part is will the US manage to upgrade it's infrastructure to meet this challenge? I'm not posting this to start a political discussion here, more so each and every one of us spends some time thinking about it. Don't comment here, this isn't the place. And Ryan, if you feel the need to delete this paragraph, feel free to do so.
Sold the OT daily I had, worked out that the return paid the interest to the bank so basically I just put gasoline and tires into it for the year.
I look at my Plymouth and the Pontiac as the cars they are. I bought the Plymouth because muscle car and fun, and I bought the Pontiac because straight-eight and fun.
They represent a capital resource if I need the money but it's never been about the money because, well, I've not put a lot into them in terms of hard cash. The parts cost a bit and I'm sure I've increased the value of the Pontiac with the improvements I've made. They'll never be worth a small fortune but that's not the point.
Anyhow, there's gotta be something to be said about a low compression flat-head, I can start making alcohol from vegetables and run it on that instead of gasoline. Tweak the timing, reprofile the needles and away I go.
That’s why I feel lucky I’m drawn to oddball shit…no one else is trying to corner the market on ‘57 Fargo’s or mid ‘60’s Chrysler’s yet… I don’t understand the inflated prices on stuff, or at least what seems to me to be inflated. I also have zero issues with someone asking whatever they want for what they have, I have the choice to not pay that.
I don't really care what my cars are worth generally, and as long as I have some enjoyment with the car during my ownership of that vehicle, then I'm good with it. The problem I have is when I spend a lot on a car and I don't have fun with it. That sucks.
Honestly, as much as the market is up now, post-war cars through the early 60s generally are really out of favor, and there are some amazing deals to be had for people like myself that really like big yachts. You can find yourself a hell of a car for under $20K.
If I want to look at expensive cars, I'll go to a cars and coffee. Half of the allure for new exotics isn't even the amazing performance or style, it's how expensive the car is and how exclusive that kind of ownership is to folks who can't afford it (even if it's a charade or a poor financial decision but that's a whole other discussion). But you can put a $100K 34 Ford next to a $100K Ferrari 308 and everyone is going to think the Ferrari is way more expensive than the old Ford.
For me it doesn't matter what the car becomes worth, if I'm enjoying my time with it it's really hard to determine a value for that. One thing for sure is that once you sell it you're unlikely to get it back, and the enjoyment you were getting from it is gone. Unless you enjoy rolling around in the money it returned to you, the fun is over and the cash you got won't likely buy it back.
I'm keeping all my cars until I don't enjoy them anymore. I don't really see the point in selling them before that unless your financial affairs are in trouble.
Here in Australia, the locally made market (GM-Holden, Ford & Chrysler) has gone nuts! All these companies have gone from here many years ago, which has strangely made the prices go through the roof. The reason people say the prices are so high here is "They don't make them anymore". I say that Studebaker doesn't make them anymore either, and they still aren't worth much. The sad part is the young'uns have to be well-heeled (or have a nice crop that year) to get into the hobby early. So all they can afford is that east-west noisy FWD plastic junk.
On the plus side, I look at my odometers now, and replace the "Miles" with "$".
You have to fund the next one somehow!
Honestly, as always, I have a short attention span. I have bought and sold a couple hundred cars at least, and have done O.K. on some. I have only sought out 1 vehicle in my life, my 59 ElCamino, and I had given up on ever owning it, when one day it fell into my lap, at my price. (What I pay for cars would make a lowballer blush). It has always been desirable, somedays more than others. If I get an offer for more than its worth, it may go. If I get offered a 64 dodge 426 cross ram 4 speed Polara, it might go. or not. I have a fleet of junk to keep me busy until I die, but Im like a dog when a squirrell runs in front of it., and market value never played into it. Except when i had to give my dad my 65 C10 to bail him out of a bad deal he made with my brother. That hurt to give up.
I'm thinking propane might be an option when the gas is gone.
78.00 for a small bottle of 75/25...that's what is doing to it
This one came home today. Paid the guy 28 cents a day for the care he and everyone else gave it since Henry Ford released it into the wild. Been looking for a while, thought this one was worth it. Talked to three random guys about it on the 200 kilometers home, met some great guys that sold it to me and helped me load it. Good day all around.
The Olde Car market Is Based On Olde Interest And I Will Ride Mine To The Bottom...
All my shop does is sell parts for old cars, and this year has been like no other. I had 3 projects I decided to sell this spring and all 3 were sold and paid for within the 2nd day of having them for sale. Overall, my shop did more this year than ever before, and there's still 2 months of the year left! I was able to build the big garage that I wish I had 15 years ago (although the price of that went way up, too).
People want what they want and are willing to pay. I think it's great, not just because it's been a great year for business, but you just know people are really passionate about their projects and cars if they're willing to pay the prices that are being paid for certain things.
For those of you who think this is temporary and this market is going to crash, I'd invite you to come back to this thread, on November 9th, 2026, exactly 5 years from now, and we'll see if your prediction came true. My guess is, 5 years on, there will only be seller's remorse, and the prices of today will look like bargains.
the gas won't be gone... probably ever. If we get our act together, at least, and get most folks using something else.
Trucks, vans, step vans, wagons, campers all types of commercial stuff is selling high.
I got what I thought was a great offer for my f100. Did a little shopping on the net before saying yes. Man trucks are crazy. I’m gonna drive it.
I’ve had a lot of people ask if my bus is for sale.
I got back on my step van project cause the prices are climbing. One will have to go eventually.
The ICE is most definitely in the cross-hairs for elimination by the usual suspects up thar in the rarified air of academe.
This stuff isn't all that hard to sort out, if indeed you have to sort it out. One thing that always gets me is the sorrow seasoned with bravado about those of us who might make the occasional $$$$ boost in our pursuits, like we're pirates robbing the poor little guy who can't "afford" to get into the life. Then do what "they" do and get into it. There's enough for everybody. And if you really want it you ought to know enough to comb garage and estate sales to find the 1 or 10 parts for cheap that you can SERVE THE MARKET by getting them out there and making a dollar. Good for you, save some and get what you want. That also applies to whole cars. Flip til you get yours. Save the stuff you think you're gonna want for yours too. Or set up a stash for trade bait. Why is that sinister? Why is that shady? It isn't. Thieves and robbers never last so they're not worth any more time than it took for me to type that sentence.
Next, the market, the folks, the times. Yes, I've seen the polital warning so I won't go there, but we must acknowledge we're in a Twilight Zone moment where we don't know what shoe drops next. Electric? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! Yeah right. You do the math and discuss it elsewhere. But for us? In this world? Excuse me a moment, some pigs are flying over the shop.
Wow, kool if that really happened. I hope most of you got that.
I have what I've wanted for a long time too. It's the one I won't sell. Probably the one somebody makes a stupid high offer on shortly after it's done, and when that happens I'll simply create a list of phone numbers to call if life says let it go. At the end of the day if the situation at home changes for the worst be happy things are high right now. You'll be able to delegate these assets to the more real and pressing needs. That's what high markets do for us, they back up our bet if it's time to call. Of course we don't think of that 24/7 but if you do see past the rim of your coffee cup then being aware at any given time is never a bad thing. Yeah I know, my thoughts are a fuckin mess sometimes but real is real. And who among us isn't just a little angry at the preipheral aspects of this moment in time? Makes that sheet metal, paint, simple hardware and more an expense we have to think about as if we're that poor soul I spoke of earlier trying to afford the $$$ or the time (waiting for stock) to get it done. And if you think doing for yourself sucks right now imagine the angst the shop owners have.
And last, the collector market, again. The "good stuff" or the most significant is rising in both activity, pricing and volume. Having time to play isn't just for Jimmy in his 2 1/2 car home garage. Reginald has a 40 car garage he's wanting to fill too. He also has time so he's raising his hand at auctions and dealing with top flight purveyors of fine autos. Is it just a boom? Sure, and not everyone will walk away with triple digit returns but they'll finally get the one that got away, wasn't for sale, or was just discovered. What isn't jumping like crickets on a hot stove is the "staple items" of the collector market. While a low volume high HP Vette might be seeing a rise the mid level mid HP small block is either stable or even down a wee bit. Not much but enough to notice if you follow this stuff. Anomalies are popping up. I just watched a Packard Darrin sell for $880,000 2 months ago. I don't care what it is, they never brought that kind of money even adjusted for inflation. I also saw some 6 and 7 figure cars sell for what they've usually sold for, but that was the smile, they sold. They brought the dough. Sometimes our beloved Fords make you scratch your head til it bleeds because it was so cheap or so much money you had to do a double take. Parts too. Man O Man if you have a stash of the good stuff now's the time. You have customers that aren't usually there so get it out there. It's also that trade bait I spoke of earlier to get what you need instead of hanging on. And automobila? Signs, trinkets, gas pumps, vintage equipment, surging now and then. I say enjoy the good from these twisted moments in history and be able to meet your goals. Nothing wrong with that. Making money is only evil if you intentionally steal and misrepresent. This is a small world and we can out those bastards pretty easy. Overall I'm more happy for our hot rod brethren than sad at the market and prices. In general, the staple things and cars like mentioned before are still ok but boosted by regular inflation a bit but so is a gallon of gas. We've lived through it before and we will again and I hope some of you make out either by liqudating, trading, or even finally scoring that 1 thing because now was time for someone to get it out there. If that's not at least 1/2 a smile I dunno what to tell ya.
they dont need to take the guns , just the bullets ,. same thing .once there is no gas we will sit in the garage and go vroom vrooom , bang bang 'that my friends is reality . so enjoy today !! i hear the ev s are so fast i may need to quite drinking and driving .............
I have a vintage electric motor.
I’m fortunate enough to own a little land and a farm tractor. I’ll grow some corn and make my own fuel if I can keep the revenuers away! Might not be able to go far, but at least I can keep the spirit alive!
Not really planning on selling any of my junk, it’s all paid for and only costs insurance once a year.
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