The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by HighSpeed LowDrag, Feb 7, 2012.
Buddy Palumbo to the white Courtesy Phone.........
The way I do it...about a $1.00 an hour, believe me you still can't afford it.
I charge $50/hour for bodywork - whether it's lead, plastic or turning wrenches.
I'm surprised that true leading hasn't been outlawed.
It's being phased out as a tire balance material (illegal to use in NY now) and as fishing sinker material. It's been banned in paint for years and was removed from fuel long ago. It's considered a hazardous material in the commercial door and window world too (what I do for a living).
Eastwood has lead free filler which is supposed to work the same but doesn't quite cut it. Lead isn't hazardous unless you ingest it, that is why you file it by hand and don't use a power sander on it.
LOL - I totally missed that , Brucie !
We get about 50/hour at our shop
Funny you say that - I've got an old article that shows Bill Hines using an air disc sander to work lead . He's still doing OK at nearly 90 (for a dude of nearly 90) . I've gotta admit , I've used power sanders too , in close corners & such .
I haven't tried that non-lead stuff from Eastwood yet , but I've heard it doesn't work quite as well , and at twice the cost , I'll be using lead as long as it's still available . If I hear that it's going away , I'll buy a bunch to hold me over for a while .
I would not tell you what to do, but I would not do something that could or possibily make me ill, cripple me, or kill me. It is not worth the risk. Example...There are 90 yr olds the smoked all their life that have beat the odds...most have not. I have family members that did not and died young.
I like the old car hobby, but would not take a chance of getting ill from it or dying from it.
Hi...I only hand file it..use a rasp to shape..would never use a disk on it..like shrapnel coming out of a shot-gun..could do a lot of damage to eyes.....Doug
Doesn't help with the cost per hour but this is part 1 of 3 of a story we did in a West Australian restoration shop on leadwiping. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BzGZZJZSZ9Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Don't worry - in the very rare occasion that I do use a power tool , I'm wearing a respirator & face/eye protection . Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do ...
My shop charges $50. per hour for lead work.
The only shop i even know of that does it in washington state wants 80 an hour since its hazardous.
Kinda why I was asking. Thanks.
Danger, a Safety Issue:
One thing you guys are forgetting, or haven't even thought about when working with lead is getting the residual lead particles on your hands, and clothing. I worked de leading abatement around twenty five years ago. Extraordinary money, but the chances of getting poisoned over time are almost 100%. What happens if you don't use hand protection like latex gloves is you get the small lead partials on your skin, and then when you go to lunch, and don't thoroughly wash your hands especially under your fingernails the lead particles attach themselves to the food your eating. Like when your holding a sandwich. O, I forgot you never eat sandwich's for lunch. Over time small lead particles build up in your body and your contaminated.
The same thing happens with the lead particles that land on your cloths. The lead particles cling to your cloths, and you go into the house and the particles are all over you, and you contaminate your home.
Lead poisoning is body weight related. It's most dangerous to small children. It's very easy for an infant to get poisoned because it being body weight related and a small infant not having much body weight. Lead poisoning will hinder mental development by way of the nerves and brain. It doesn't take very long and the symptoms will show up.
Things like behavior, or attention problems. Failure at school, hearing problems, or slow body growth. These are just a few of the problems that can show up.
Years ago house paint, especially white was full of lead shot. The painters would pour the fine lead into the paint. Over time the painters, because of using the lead for years would get poisoned. They in most cases would loose there minds. The neighbors would say " he was such a nice man, and all of a sudden he went nuts". It wasn't all of a sudden. It happened over time. It took decades before it was discovered that it was the lead in the paint that did all the damage to the brain.
When I was involved in lead abatement I had the best protection that was available . Full face protection with a breathing apparatus. Complete tyvec suite with booty's, and double latex gloves with the cuffs taped around the gloves. Even with all this I still started to get poisoned in eleven months. We where given a blood test and my lead reading at the start was a 6. 50 is considered dangerous, and within a year my level climbed to 22. My buddy that got me into de leading had a reading of 200. He continued for a few more years. In all he was involved for ten years, and in the end by giving blood at a regular intervals got his reading below 50.
A little point of interest: White males over fifty can have excess levels of a Copper trace mineral. How they lower the level is by giving blood. We asked a doctor about the possibility of a persons lead level being reduced by giving blood. It was to far out of the box for our doctor to even give us a reasonable answer. Some of these doctors are masterly in there chosen vocations, but ignorant when it comes to thinking about anything out of the norm.
You may be thinking that some of the old Custom Masters that have used lead for over sixty years are still around and doing as good as should be expected. I submit that you should be concerned if you insist on using lead and you have a young one in the home. Take the time to look up "lead poisoning" on Goggle. You can then better understand whether it's worth the effort for something that's been outdated for over half a century, just so you can be different.
One last thing. The next time you meet someone that works with lead take a look at there cloths, and the dirt under there fingernails. Ill bet that you remember what has been written here today for the rest of your life, and how dangerous some of the particles on your clothing, and under your fingernails can be. I had dirt under my fingernails my entire life, but once I started de leading my hands and clothing have never been cleaner. I don't have a phobia, but I sure learned about getting myself poisoned.
Thanks for reading, Johnny Sweet
Quoted because it needs to be read/said TWICE. Yes, it's that important.
My wife and I are looking for a house and I'm quietly pushing for a 1988 build or newer because that's the break point according to the gov't for a home to NOT have lead based paint in it. I don't want it in my 4 month olds environment.
Just because it was used in the past does not mean it's was or is safe to continue using. Asbestos was "safe" and used for years. We know it's not safe now.
In my field we heat the lead to melt it so it can be poured into cast iron fittings. Some of the lead will evaporate into the atmosphere, it just does. I have been doing plumbing for 30 years, I have poured roughly 200,000 pounds in lead. On some days I would pour as many as 200 5 pond lead joints.
I ha for many years tested myself for the lead content of my blood. It was always absolutely negligible. Less than most people in fact. I also was a specialist in the forming and construction of lead pans and vessels. I would hand work lead sheet with oak slappers and formers and hand solder all of the seams. I have been in contact with lead as much or more than 99% of the people on the planet. My lead levels over the years have always been consistently lower than those of the general public. You get more lead accumulation sitting in traffic than from working the stuff so long as you have some respect for it..
Lead finds it's way into your bone mass. From your bone mass calcium is taken to form receptors for your brain. Your body can not tell between lead and calcium. In some cases it puts lead into the receptor, then you have a bad receptor, this is called plaque.
In this case you lose the receptor and the function it did in your brain.
Lead occurs naturally, in it's natural state it has a patina or lead rust on it, lead oxide, this turns the lead surface white and powdery. In this state it is harmless in nature. Only when the patina is damaged can it get into you or if it is vaporized through burning or turned to dust.
In children it can be hazardous because they have a growing brain. The plaque closes the receptors and this causes brain function problems. In most cases where children had lead problems they were eating paint chips. The lead actually has a sweet taste to it.
The replacement chemicals are not much better. Look up latex and toxicity. Look up bondo or body filler and it's toxicity.
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