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Folks Of Interest What would YOU do? [ brake FAILure ]

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SanDiegoHighwayman, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. SanDiegoHighwayman
    Joined: Jun 26, 2012
    Posts: 951

    SanDiegoHighwayman
    Member

    IMG_1515.JPG IMG_1504.JPG IMG_1507.JPG IMG_1511.JPG IMG_1513.JPG Suffered an ALmost CATASTROPHIC brake failure yesterday while out "Playin on the Freeway"!

    Nearly went OFF the road, when the RF primary brake shoe DISTENTREGRATED to dust and particles [ pics to come ]

    ONLY my reflexes and LONGtime familarity w the vehicle saved us from rolling over or crashin OFF the freeway!!

    Made it home to the ranch leavin LOTs of space [ MUCH more then usual ] in front of me fer stoppin & bein *gentle* on the brake pedal and usin the emergency brake to assist --
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
    Model T1 likes this.
  2. I help a friend recently replace the front brake shoes on his car,he restored the car several years ago and really hasn't put too many miles on the car.

    He had the exact same thing happen,,the brake shoe just crumbled.

    We went to NAPA this time,,no discount house brake shoes this time. HRP
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  3. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,598

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Which vehicle was it? NOT the '56...?
    I've been aware of the brake lining material available here in CA. for some time...
    an elder friend that owned/operated Concord Safety Center referred to the stuff as 'Japanese Linoleum'.
    I dare say he was right...
    Someone showed me a roll of lining material that he called 'pink', (for its color)
    It's extremely hard to find, but is superior to the Bendix and Raybestos stuff of today.

    Glad you kept a cool head, and made it back to the ranch. Good to know you're still out there.
     
    SanDiegoHighwayman likes this.
  4. Well first thing I would do is buy new shoes and clean under ware. :D

    The wife had a '93 Thunderbird (what a piece of crap that car was) that lost the front pucks on a long steep grade in the Rockies. They just disintegrated, I passed several runaway truck ramps on the way down. I just used the E brake to save the rotors and put new pads on in the federal park at the bottom of the hill (yes I was carrying a set).

    I need you to pay attention, throw those underoos away and get new ones do not try and wash them out.

    Glad you're OK.
     

  5. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,003

    rfraze
    Member

    Just fixed brake on Mustang that looked like that. Take a look at return springs (better yet replace) and pad on backing plate where shoes rest. I had to weld and grind pad area that was so worn as to hold shoes against drum. Heat caused springs to loose tensile strength.
    025.JPG 020.JPG
     
  6. czuch az
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 161

    czuch az

    GADZOOKS! Thats avertin tragedy right there.
    I really try to avoid bonded and stick with riveted for that very reason.
     
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  7. traffic61
    Joined: Jun 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,508

    traffic61
    Member
    from Owasso, OK

    Glad that you are OK man. That's pretty hairy stuff.
     
    SanDiegoHighwayman likes this.
  8. Somebody used ELMER'S on that lining,,,:rolleyes:
     
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  9. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,753

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The rear facing shoe is the secondary and should be the longer lining on your Bendix brake. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but were the shoes installed correctly?
     
    SanDiegoHighwayman likes this.
  10. I have seen this happen a few times with NOS brake shoes I got from classic car parts dealers I think they were just to old even though the were new parts 30/40 years on the shelf is likely at fault.
     
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  11. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,283

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Now is a good time to convert to front disc's.

    Safety is more important than originality !
     
  12. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,920

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    It seems like it happens on the shoes that the material is glued on,I never had a set of riveted shoes do that. I always have a working parking brake just in case something like that happens,my ex popped a brake line and panicked so I drove the car home so I drove it home without even touching the brake pedal.
     
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  13. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,719

    junk yard kid
    Member

    If I was you i would drive up to E&M auto parts on main street. Speak with dave or anthony and theyll get you hooked up. Many times their prices are fair or better and they can get the good quality stuff.
     
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  14. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 2,384

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    I've had a couple of OT daily drivers shed a brake pad. Like junkyardjeff says, they're bonded, not riveted. I blame rust getting between the pad and the metal backing plate. Still, while noisy and somewhat unsafe, losing a disk pad isn't a major failure, the car still stops reasonably well. Popping a brake line is much more exciting, I've done that too. Drove home leaving lots of following distance and engine breaking (5 speed).

    Shedding a shoe like the picture shows would be bad. Unlike the disk pad, it's got nowhere to go, so I assume the wheel locks up? Ouch.

    I'm starting to think that any pads or shoes over five years old need to be replaced. I don't drive enough to wear them out in that time, but rust never sleeps.
     
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  15. Gene Boul
    Joined: Feb 9, 2006
    Posts: 805

    Gene Boul

    I get my Ford brake parts from Richard @ V8 Garage. He's on here fairly regularly. I don't use NOS brake shoes on something thats 40, 50, or 60 years old. Also I don't use "overseas" stuff if at all possible.
     
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  16. Buddy Palumbo
    Joined: Mar 30, 2008
    Posts: 3,870

    Buddy Palumbo
    Member

    Glad to see you and the car made it out okay ! I'd use this as an opportunity to upgrade to disc brakes up front, and a dual circuit master (of you haven't already). That was something I decided on doing pretty early in my Shoebox project, and I'm very glad I did. It stops soooooo nice now. Do it right and live to tell about it !
     
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  17. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,590

    117harv
    Member

    Really, again? Nothing wrong with drum brakes.

    Keep the drums, just go through them and rebuild.
     
  18. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,987

    Beanscoot
    Member

    I had a front brake shoe lining come off on my 64 Ford but it just pulled moderately towards that direction, but easily controllable even with manual steering. It was caused by a failure of the glue due to rust forming under it.
    The lining couldn't go anywhere, so the brakes still worked. But I was going only 30 mph.

    This summer a rear brake line on my '92 Ford failed, resulting in no brakes at all. I thought the dual master would prevent total failure, but apparently not. This was is in stop and go city traffic and I was able to use the parking brake to make it home.
    That car of course has discs up front, but it didn't help.
     
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  19. Is that the correct spring there down at the bottom of the shoes just above the adjuster? I think it should be one with the long bar that goes over the star wheel. That one looks like it's rubbing on the star.
    -Pat
     
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  20. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,283

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Backward thinking Ratrod mentality :)
    If it is used daily disc brakes should seriously be considered [ and some form of booster ]

    Conversion kits are cheap these days!
    They are certainly cheaper than hospital bills and law suits.
     
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  21. SanDiegoHighwayman
    Joined: Jun 26, 2012
    Posts: 951

    SanDiegoHighwayman
    Member

    I've had trouble since asbestos was eliminated as a brake shoe ingredient, in finding shoes that would *stop* my Merc easily and yet not "fade" when they git HOT -- I've tried shoes from several sources, not determined by *price* I NEED my vehicles to STOP!

    I'm *now* thinkin there was sumthing *wrong* with this shoe set from it's installation because [ as noted in one of my videos ] I've had intermittant "issues" w a right "pull" every so often on heavy brakin -- this is the same side as well where recently there was what looked like a rivet that caused a grindin sensation I felt that caused me to dissemble and investigate it at the dog park not too long ago -- didn't see anythin else wrong at that time --

    I'd LOVEta have disk brake setups on BOTH my Merc AND Beulah, but, unfortunaetly, they're exPENSIVE and I can't DO it myself :( -- checked on set up fer the Merc -- and beCAUSE it's a 5 on 5 bolt pattern wheel, it's about $2.500 to $ 2.900 installed by a reputable alignment shop - -Beulah, maybe less because it's a standard 5 on 41/2 bolt pattern

    I *had* a spare set of 264 "soft" shoes on my "extres" shelf -- so I put them ON Tuesday and *they* feel totally BETTER then the others ever did!

    So, for now at least I'm good on the Merc -- Beulah, on the other hand, remains to be seen -- She's due to be completely REwired in three weeks! Lookin forward to everything WORKING correctly aGIN
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  22. SanDiegoHighwayman
    Joined: Jun 26, 2012
    Posts: 951

    SanDiegoHighwayman
    Member

    It's supposed to "Pat" keeps the star from unwindin ;) these aren't "self adjustin"
     
  23. SanDiegoHighwayman
    Joined: Jun 26, 2012
    Posts: 951

    SanDiegoHighwayman
    Member

    ALways wondered why BOTH shoes are not the SAME size and if it might not imPROVE stopping to MAKE them so - maybe I'm wrong fer doin so but *I've* always called the BIGGER shoe the "primary" because it's the one most responsible for stopping the forward motion w the "secondary" [ in my view, because it's smaller surface ] bein less so in stoppin reverse motion -- ever notice, in parkin on a hill, that if yer facin downhill the parkin brake holds BETTER then if yer facin UP hill?

    wondered bout this fer YEARS? Figured someone smarter then me must know sumthin I can't see to design it that way PLUS I'd haveta buy TWO sets of #264 shoes to try all four "primarys" [ my designation ] at once

    Anybody know why it *wouldn't be a good ideas to try this?
     
  24. SanDiegoHighwayman
    Joined: Jun 26, 2012
    Posts: 951

    SanDiegoHighwayman
    Member

    in my workin career, I've seen many like those you've pictured -- oftentimes on the rears, as folks would drive with their parking brakes ON :rolleyes: seen rubbin pads worn almost THRU too! not on *my* client's cars however :cool: as I always used lithium grease on them shoe rubbin areas - in fact on EVERY contact surface exCEPT:eek: the shoe to drum or pad to rotor -- my brakes never squeaked :cool:
     
  25. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,753

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Most/all of the hydraulic drum brakes I've worked with or have studied call the forward facing shoe the primary, regardless of servo or non-servo design, and that includes Bendix, Lockheed, etc. I don't remember one that didn't, and most older shop/service manuals will show this true.
    The design of the Bendix Duo-Servo drum brake is such that the primary shoe contacts the drum, "serves" into the secondary through the adjuster, then forces the secondary shoe into the anchor and drum. The secondary shoe does most of the forward braking, and is why it's lining is always longer, and many times made of a different material.
    Not trying to be a smart a_, but the best thing with to do with your brakes is know the proper terminology, :) correct assembly and adjustment, keep them in good working order (that would be an occasional inspection), and forget about any "redesign" :eek: with a very proven design. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
  26. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 26,664

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    regular maintenance should include checking condition of brakes, even if replaced what seems like not too long ago. also, when replacing drum shoes good idea to have machine shop mic drums - this will also help knowing if out of round.
     
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  27. czuch az
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 161

    czuch az

    Man, THANKS.
    I always knew which shoe went where, but not why.
    I've been doing my own brakes for longer than I would admit in court.
    You just opened a door.
     
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  28. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 400

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California


    Thomas, talk to the guys at PECK'S HEAVY FRICTION, they used to be in Santee IIR. If you have GOOD cores, they might be able to reline your shoes with better material than what comes in a box. They specialize in heavy trucks, really knew their chit back 20-yrs. ago. Joe Peck might still be around, or ask for Adam. Worth a shot... Good Luck, Tim
     
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  29. Harell Los Angeles
    Joined: Dec 26, 2001
    Posts: 151

    Harell Los Angeles
    Member

    Second on Pecks, Adam I believe moved on to the local Kenworth dealer but still a family owned business that knows what they are doing
     
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  30. Buddy Palumbo
    Joined: Mar 30, 2008
    Posts: 3,870

    Buddy Palumbo
    Member

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