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Projects What the HE double Hockey sticks is this chrysler flathead???

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by CrashNBurn5150, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

    I have a really old Hobart welder with a Chrysler Ind 6 cyl engine. and thats all I really know about it for sure. on to the guesses. This Welder is strictly military and that is why I think I cant find anything on it. it has some military parts on it that you can tell by looking are military. the serial number on the right (passenger) side is IND-30-1024-1 The water pump is kinda weird in that instead of having the small pad to bolt on a flange it has a cast neck that a hose slips on to. but this thing is kinda cool because it can be rebuilt in the desert using your BDU's as gasket material. all the components seem to be made to be able to band aid them together should you get stuck on a raft with nothing but your welder and a fish carcass. anyways I am restoring it because it is in incredibly great shape and as soon as i learn to use this site I will be posting a lot of pics of this thing. Oh yeah its also mounted on one of those 4 wheel trailers with sideways leaf springs. I hit a pothole doing 60 and i thought it was gonna flip upside down the way it started slinging side to side, then it self corrected very fast and I almost loaded my pants. It was pretty awesome... anyways I appreciate any help I can get guys. and if this isn't the rite place for this thread hopefully a mediator will move it for me and let me know...

    Thanks
    Ray
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,520

    squirrel
    Member

    hi, welcome to the hamb....first lesson is you can't ask what something is, unless you post pictures.
     
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  3. Ole don
    Joined: Dec 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,915

    Ole don
    Member

    Second thing is, learn how to drive. You drove right down the road going only 60 and hit a pot hole that wasn't even moving??? (just kidding the new guy). I want to see pictures too. The Chrysler industrial sixes from that era were tough as nails. They we harnessed together and used in tanks, five of them on one big cast housing.
     
  4. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

    I tried to post pics but the server rejected them so I am looking right now so see what I have to do to make them smaller...
     

  5. Chrysler Industrial engines were generally the same as the car/truck engine internally although they could have had different cam specs and timing but pistons,rings bearings etc should interchange.......the "30" series I think are the 230 Plymouth/Dodge engine, I had one I was gunna put in a 41 Plymouth Coupe......measure the length of the cylinder head.........23" is Plymouth/Dodge.......25" is Desoto/Chrysler.......andyd
     
  6. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

    Here is a pic. I have to shrink them to 25% of what my camera takes in order to post. Ill post more later but for now this is something. and I have to go coach football for my son... ANYBODY WANT 30 TEENAGE BOYS??? they are all useless cause not one of them can rebuild a Carb...
     

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  7. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

  8. kuhn1941
    Joined: Feb 15, 2013
    Posts: 194

    kuhn1941
    Member

    To change those points in the car is very difficult . That looks sweet as a project . Is it still positive ground as some of the 40's cars ?

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  9. James Curl
    Joined: Mar 28, 2006
    Posts: 370

    James Curl
    Member

    Just looking at the intake manifold and the oil filter I would think a 218/Plymouth or 230/Dodge short block 23" long. There should be a pipe plug in the center of #6 piston on the head, pull the plug place a stiff wire, preferably a welding wire into the hole and rotate the crankshaft to measure the stroke. The bores on the 218 and 230 are the same but the stroke is different. Same on the De Soto Chrysler engines but the head is 25" long. Parts are available at many Agriculture equipment store as the engines were used in combines and Massey Harris tractors. NAPA stores usually have a catalog listing industrial engine parts where you can get most parts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  10. KoolKat-57
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 3,034

    KoolKat-57
    Member
    from Dublin, OH

    You were towing that thing at 60 MPH?
    Wahoo! That's probably the fastest that has ever gone!
    KK
     
  11. No kidding,,,I'll bet the GI limit on that would be 35,,,:eek:
     
  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,603

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Same engine as used in Dodge and Plymouth cars from the late 30s to 1959, in Dodge trucks, industrial engines, and Crown marine engines, so they made millions of them. I believe the industrial model was made up to 1972.

    IND30 is a 230 cu in engine same as used in fifties Dodge and Plymouth cars and Dodge trucks.

    Millions were made, and parts are still freely available. You can get most everything you need, such as spark plugs, belts, points, head gasket at your local NAPA or other good parts house.

    Vintage Power Wagons has tons of parts, very reasonable, like NOS pistons for $75 a set of 6. Power Wagons used the same engine from WW2 up to the late sixties.

    They are an excellent engine, well made, powerful and rugged. Also simple to repair and overhaul.

    The distributor fastens to the block with one bolt. Leave the adjuster bracket on the distributor, take the distributor off and work on it on the bench (replace points, condenser, clean and inspect) then pop it back on and you will not lose your adjustment. Of course you will have to check and adjust timing if you replace or adjust the points but it will be close enough to start.

    The can shaped gizmo on the left side is the oil filter. Take off the lid, pull out the cartridge, and you can wipe out the sludge with some cotton waste or old rags. Then drop in a new filter cartridge. They are still available from NAPA as many tractors and industrial engines use them.
     
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  13. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,603

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    By the way Hobart made great welders, you are in for a treat. Easy to use and you could build a battleship with it.
     
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  14. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

    The engine and Gen turn nice and smooth. i was told that the engine just had a burnt valve but I doubt that the guy was being very honest with me. if it was a running industrial welder like that he would have been asking for more than 200 I would think. Ive been seeing nonrunners all over for 2500 - 3500 bucks. this machine was probably worked pretty hard in its early days at Norfolk but it was definitely maintained very well. and One of the coolest things in my opinion is that the US Navy Property tag is intact and still looks really nice.
     
  15. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,603

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    If the engine turns over and the block is not cracked it is worth nearly as much as you paid. $200 is nothing for a welder like that. You could try firing it up, or you could remove the pan and head first. If it has bad valves you can do a ring and valve job for $500. Most times this is all you need.
     
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  16. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

    the engine had oil and coolant in it so I dont think it was to far off from running. Ive never done a valve job before but Ive done lots of other internal engine stuff like head gaskets and such. does anybody know where I might find a service manual on this. it doesnt have to be original or anything like that. photocopies would work for me. or even digital scan copies.
    And just so you guys know, the reason I hit that pothole doing 60 is because my service rig weighs a little over 6 tons with all the equipment on it and the tongue of that trailer is a double joint plus it was a long windy mountain road with a rock face on one side and a drop on the other. Swerving the potholes just didnt feel like the smartest move LOL
     
  17. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,767

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    I got my manual from Andy Bernbaum & it's a reproduction of the factory manual.

    Do yourself a favor and do 3 things before you take the engine apart:
    Do a compression test dry then wet, then if figures seem off do a cylinder leakdown test.

    This will normally tell you if the rings or valves are bad, and which ones exactly. You just need to interpret the results correctly. It will tell you things you may not see with the naked eye during a casual teardown.

    BTW, slow the hell down. I don't wanna see you coming the other way on any winding road after that tale. :D
     
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  18. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,262

    woodbutcher
    Member

    Those old Hobart`s are a great,rugged piece of equipment.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
     
  19. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

    :D
    K I always see these engines listed as a 5 5A 6 6A 7 7A and all kinds of crap like that which I don't understand. How do I figure out what manual I need and how do I figure out the production year of this machine or engine and I know the basic parts of the engine are interchangeable but what about the exterior stuff. How would I go about finding a rebuild kit for this water pump. I think its gonna need one...
     
  20. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,603

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    The IND30 is the same engine used in Plymouth and Dodge cars and Dodge pickup trucks in the fifties. Try your local parts store for the rebuilt water pump. They are available IF the parts guy is savvy enough to find the part number and order it.

    If there is an old dusty parts store in town with a couple of bald headed or gray haired grouches behind the counter that is the place to go. The place where all the farmers get parts for their old tractors. A new shiny parts store full of Chinese crap with a kid with purple hair and a snot ring behind the counter, not much use to you.

    Or, if you prefer to order online, try Vintage Power Wagons. They probably know the part number by heart for every part on your engine.

    Just doing a search for IND30 Chrysler engine will turn up some info.
     
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  21. That thing probably has over $200.00 in copper alone.....nice score
     
  22. 26Troadster
    Joined: Nov 20, 2010
    Posts: 638

    26Troadster
    Member
    from Texas

    we once had a u.s. navy 58 model towmotor forklift, had the continental air plane motor and the cost to rebuild it was way out there that was 20 years ago.
     
  23. HotRodTractor
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 67

    HotRodTractor
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nice score. That is a 23" long engine - the exact same as used in the Dodge and Plymouth cars/trucks. You can still get pretty much everything you need for these engines pretty easily and reasonably priced. There are a couple of parts stores in my area that even stocks most of the parts on the shelf because these engines were used in so many things that still get used.

    Do compression and leak down tests as mentioned above and if things look decent enough without too many red flags - go ahead and try and get it running.

    These are neat and very reliable old engines - take a look at my avatar - that is a 25" long Chrysler version of this motor with factory dual carbs and dual exhaust and I plan on using it in my RPU project.
     
  24. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

    My end game is to completely restore this machine to a beautiful and fully functional piece of history to tow down the main street of my town behind my 46 Chevy COE in the parade with my company logos on it. Maybe drum up a little welding/fab work for myself... And if the price is rite I may sell it to someone who will appreciate it and probably get more use out of it than myself. Ive never really needed to weld 2 buildings together LOL
     
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  25. CrashNBurn5150
    Joined: Aug 4, 2014
    Posts: 11

    CrashNBurn5150

    OH YEAH
    How do I tell if it is or was a posative ground? there was no battery or leads. and were all these engines 6 Volt or did they make some to be 12? and I will definitely start looking for Andy Bernbaum. I want a manual for this. I sent an E-mail to Norfolk Naval Base asking about any possible service records for this just cause I thought it would be cool as hell to know what ships this thing has worked on during its life. does anybody have any previous experience trying to get Info out of the military that might help me in my quest? I was not allowed to join the military due to mental disabilities so I have no foot in the door with them.
     
  26. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    what color are the tags on the electrical stuff?? red=6 V, green =12. 6V were positive ground, Ign wire to - post on coil, + terminal to dist. 12V were neg ground. 12V started in 56. there should be some casting markers on the block and or head that contain the last two digits of the casting date. But that is not always an accurate predictor of date of assembly. If 6V use minimum 1 gauge battery leads. make sure there is a block to frame ground strap in additioin to the battery ground.
     
  27. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Does it also include a generator function??? Many welders also included an AC/DC gen set. Handy to have when the power goes out.
     
  28. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,603

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Look at the generator (the one on the front of the engine) and the starter. They should have an ID plate that tells the model number and whether they are 6V + ground or 12V - ground. Newer than 1955 usually 12v. The coil may be marked for voltage too.
     
  29. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,603

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    If you want to make her bark, get some 1/4" rod and start welding a battleship or army tank together lol.
     
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  30. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,767

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    Bernbaum=
    http://www.oldmoparts.com/

    And if it was military, the voltage might be 24 volts.

    Should be marked on the generator.
     
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