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Technical What is the difference Between Stromberg 97 Logo's

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Dirty30Dodge, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. Dirty30Dodge
    Joined: Jan 10, 2009
    Posts: 471

    Dirty30Dodge
    Member
    from Argyle, TX

    Hey guys
    I searched but may have missed it! But what is the difference between the Stromberg Large logo 97, Small logo 97 and the No Logo 97?

    It would seem the large logo 97 must have a preference. Can they be mixed up for a multi carb intake?

    Thanks
     
  2. I could be wrong here....but what I remember is that small logo's are actual Ford carbs that would have been found on a 36-38ish flatheads.

    the large logo's are aftermarket.

    the no logo is a stromberg 48 which has higher cfm than the 97's
     
  3. hellerlj
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 998

    hellerlj
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Don't know if it is true or not, but someone told me it was due to different manufacturers
     
  4. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,776

    banjorear
    Member

    Not all no logo's are 48's. You need to find the fraction or mixed number cast intoa small circle on the lower 1/2 of the middle section of the carb to know what it is.

    I also believe most no logos are made in Elmyria, NY vs. South Bend, IN.

    97= 31/32
    48= 1 1/32
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
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  5. Dirty30Dodge
    Joined: Jan 10, 2009
    Posts: 471

    Dirty30Dodge
    Member
    from Argyle, TX

    Ok that helps Thanks
     
  6. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 1,536

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A few years ago, people were paying more for large number 97s, so I looked for small numbers or blanks. If you're buying cores for rebuild, you'll need 4 or 5 to make 3 anyway.
     
  7. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Joel, I found that out, when inspecting swap meet "97" 's, the overall cost in parts and time, made it far more economical to buy the "new" Strombergs that came from England. They work perfectly, and the same 3 psi fuel pressure is the rule.

    Happy Roddin' 4TTRUK
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  8. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    All the small logo 97's I have encountered have the Ford part number prefix (67) cast in right above the 97...the 67 also went on the lid, right above the number on main body, on those carbs still intact. This linked the new parts to their number in the Ford system...so presumably all small logo 97's are original Ford. I assumed from this that the large logos were all from the huge number of aftermarket sales Stromberg made for many years...then I got my cage re-rattled on that!
    Someone pointed out that the carb in the service bulletins in 1936, a picture I have known for most of my life, were large! So--Ford clearly supplied larges from the beginning too. Next, I looked at the Ford rebuild guide, which was published in 1938 as the carbs were being phased out by Ford...more large logos, then I noticed an arrow base on one, something I had thought of as marking very late aftermarket Strombergs... so all of those forms go back to or near the beginning!
    Anyway, there are no meaningful differences between the logo or base styles UNTIL the late aftermarket ones with the protruding nozzle on the off-idle circuit hole. These have different base, notched bore for the nozzle, and different idle bleeds in the main casting from all others.
     
  9. Dirty30Dodge
    Joined: Jan 10, 2009
    Posts: 471

    Dirty30Dodge
    Member
    from Argyle, TX

    Wow Great info Thank you !
     
  10. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,776

    banjorear
    Member

    As usual, Bruce takes it to the finite detail and gets it right from source. Thanks again. I know we all appreciate you wading through the fiction to get to the facts.
     
  11. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,594

    carbking
    Member

    Just checked some of the Stromberg files:

    Bowl P-19421 was used on passenger
    Bowl P-20691 was used on passenger altitude
    Bowl P-21950 was used on light truck

    All of these are O.E. It is possible additional bowls were released for the A./M. program post-1938.

    As the castings prints are on 500' rolls of microfilm, I probably won't check these at this time.

    Jon.
     
  12. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,594

    carbking
    Member

    The A./M. carbs used 2 bowls:

    Bowls 382822 used on Strombergs to replace Holleys from 1939~1948.

    Bowls 385500 used on Strombergs to replace Holleys from 1949~1952

    Again, to dig out the castings prints which should show the logo or lack thereof would be exceptionally time-consuming. Sorry.

    Jon.
     
  13. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,716

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER



    Just to confuse this even more, I have Large 97's from both these factories.
     
  14. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,594

    carbking
    Member

    Something else to consider about the "no logo" bowls:

    The so-called model 97 is actually a special case of the Stromberg EE-1.

    In addition to Ford, Stromberg EE-1 carburetors (with no logo) were used on: Auburn, Buick, Lincoln, Nash, Oldsmobile, Studebaker, Seagrave trucks, and Gray, Kermath, and Roberts marine engines.

    The way some of the commercial carburetor rebuilders liked to try to use whatever they had, the "no logo" bodies could be any of the above.

    Bodies varied as to venture size, and air bleed size.

    Without spending a couple of days chasing microfilm, which I do not have the time to do; I would SPECULATE that the small and large logos where probably both used at the same time, with one being used for "normal" production, and the other being used for "unusual" production (such as high altitude carburetors). BUT THIS IS STRICTLY SPECULATION!

    Jon.
     
  15. Fjant
    Joined: Mar 17, 2011
    Posts: 112

    Fjant
    Member
    from Sweden

    It seem that most people have the opinion that the big logo 97s are more desireble. This taken from the fact that in sales adds it is always mentioned the fact that they are selling a big logo. I have almost never seen anybody trying to sell a carb with the fact that it beeing a small logo 97.
    But since the new produced have the big logo you would think that the small logo would be more desireble if there no difrence in performance.

    Also there is a diffrence in the foot of the carburators. I have two small logo 97 where the foot (or base or whatever its called) have a shape with sharp corners. Most you see have rounded corners. If I remember correctly these foots were used the first years?
    On the new 97 the foot is painted. I don't think that was the case on the old ones.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  16. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    The arrrow type base, shaped like a Ford card rater than a "D"
    Bowl variants...the '49 type has the Loadamatic hookup
    the last type bowl for the extended off-idle system surely has a different number
    High altitude carbs got smaller jets in a couple of stages, bowls would be stamped with the jet sizes, with different PN...perhaps the changed the bleed hole sizes too.

    On the rankings...I have heard of people recently choosing the small logo as it proved their carbs were indeed OLD and not the modern ones...status seekers go to strange places!
     
  17. I have one I would like to ID. It is a large #97, "D" base, P19400 8A on base, P21951-31/32 on bowl. Also in very small stamping on the bowl is .045. I have had it many years and actually ran it on a banger. Curious of it's origin.
     
  18. uncle max
    Joined: Jan 19, 2006
    Posts: 903

    uncle max
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Still waiting for the movie...
     
  19. Pretty sure it was a super old posting of yours that my info was from. thanks for the correction/update.
     
  20. Babyearl
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 610

    Babyearl
    Member

    So,, what I take away from this is,, it's all in the eyes of the beholder.:D
     
  21. Dirty30Dodge
    Joined: Jan 10, 2009
    Posts: 471

    Dirty30Dodge
    Member
    from Argyle, TX

    yep! Great info guys !!
     
  22. Dirty30Dodge
    Joined: Jan 10, 2009
    Posts: 471

    Dirty30Dodge
    Member
    from Argyle, TX

    Ok I got the three Carbs that raised the initial question. They all have EE 1 bases and the bases have modifications like they were ran together. On two of the bodies it has the small 97 and one has 1 3/16. Would that be a 97 base with a 48 body? is there any difference in the body and top amongst the 81, 97 and 48?? is it all in the bases? which determines the size of the carb? Thanks Again
     

    Attached Files:

  23. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Bases different between all 3 (with several flavors of 97 over 20 years or so)...all three bodies differ...81 and 97 tops interchange.
    Many 48s contain 97 parts after multiple rebuilds, some 97's have had 38 stuff mixed in, and I have 81's with odd mixes...
    48 and 97 have same throttle bore, 97 and 48 have dif venturis, 81's smaller in both places.
    Even the language is muddled..."48" refers to the Ford PN prefix, .97=size' 81 + size
    EE-1 is a muddled family size reference covering several cars slightly smaller, slightly bigger, and same as 1"!
     
  24. Dirty30Dodge
    Joined: Jan 10, 2009
    Posts: 471

    Dirty30Dodge
    Member
    from Argyle, TX

    0_o Ok! Thank you on these it looks like the center carb is the 1 3/16 with EE 1 Base if I use them on a 6x2 how would I make sure of its size so I can match it for the other center carb. I was under the impression guys use a 48 as the center because its bigger and flows more. Then use smaller carbs as dumpers. Is there a Stromberg guide for this?
    Thank you
     
  25. uncle max
    Joined: Jan 19, 2006
    Posts: 903

    uncle max
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Which ever you decide on for "dumpers", do not make the mistake of removing the chokeplates for "more flow".
    It's been recently dyno-proven that the chokeplates are necessary to provide a smooth airstream over the open ends of the discharge jets for proper atomization.
    Also, be sure to clean out the often overlooked highspeed airbleeds, adjacent to the minor venturis.
     
  26. whiskerz
    Joined: Jul 7, 2011
    Posts: 148

    whiskerz
    Member
    from Ga.

    Thanks for this is there more I can read somewhere ? I am trying to ID some carbs as well
     
  27. Bearing Burner
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 854

    Bearing Burner
    Member
    from W. MA

    I took off a couple of no logo carbs off V-12 Zepher engines in the '60s
     
  28. 1952henry
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 718

    1952henry
    Member

    There were EE1s on the Lincolns with LZ in place of the 97.
     
    Rui likes this.
  29. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,403

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Q. What is the difference Between Stromberg 97 Logo's?

    A. About 25-50 dollars.
     

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