The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Robert J. Palmer, Nov 10, 2019.
Helicopter tape has the same dimples, for rotor leading edges.
I think that I am a middle of the road guy on fit and finish. Being more of a hot rod type than a show rod type of a guy if it presents well and does what it is supposed to do I am happy.
Let me 'slain Lucy. I love a shiny car or bike and I know that rust never sleeps. Primer is good enough for me more often than not but I do like finished paint. I am not impressed with over the top finished paint and old paint that has stars from rocks hitting the underside or crazed paint really makes me smile. Unfortunately these days you really don't find cars with solid bodies or old paint that is still viable so a simple patch and paint is my next option.
I also paint my house.
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OMG not the house.
There is a difference between rust and peeling paint.
I really think that there are a lot of us that are both.
I like my stuff clean and shiny, but that doesn’t make me anti-patina. Honest patina from years of exposure and use adds character. Primer and suede finishes on nice sheet metal looks good too.
What I don’t care for is fake patina with paint “worn” off in random spots that don’t make sense, or high gloss clear over real patina which looks totally unnatural.
You're missing the point of nice paint because your purpose is different. If a fish is judged by its ability to climb a tree, it's always going to fall short.
For some of us, perhaps like yourself, your purpose is to build a "driver", with emphasis on performance. On the hierarchy of priorities, the mechanical aspects of the car that increase performance and reliability take precedence over aesthetic qualities like nice paint and body work. But for others, myself included, having a car that is attractive to look at is the main priority. You've highlighted the main difference between the "hot rod vs. custom" mentality. It's like comparing hockey and figure skating. One is an objective analysis, the car is faster or it isn't, it make more or less horsepower, it stops or handles better, etc. The other is a subjective analysis, based on perceived beauty and style. I've always described having a beautiful custom car as walking into a room with the hottest girl on your arm. And nobody cares how fast she can run when she's standing there looking gorgeous. Just sitting there stopped for all to admire is doing what the car was intended to do, and your comments insinuate that there is more currency in speed and performance than beauty and style. I would disagree.
I can understand the hot rod mentality, I mean, hell, the small-car-big-engine mindset gave us muscle cars. I get it. But for myself it's not the top priority. Sure, I enjoy fast cars too. But as mentioned, someone will always be faster. I'd also argue that my desire to keep a fairly traditional car is going to be at odds with a goal of building a performance vehicle. New cars are always going to faster than a traditional hot rod. I can walk into a Dodge dealership and drove off with a sub-10 second car I can take to pick up my daughter at daycare in. Find me any traditional car that can hang with that. That makes no mention of exotics. If you want to argue with me that I'm not comparing apples to apples, I'd argue you're wrong. Speed and performance is objectively quantifiable. Show me a 57 Chevy with a hot small block and a 6 speed and you could say that it's performance has been greatly increased and that it's fast for what it is. I'd also show you a car that would get dropped by a bone stock Coyote powered Mustang. Not that there's anything wrong with that. If simply improving the car's performance over stock is your desire, by all means, enjoy.
I'd also add that just because many of us prioritize looks over performance doesn't mean the rest of the car is neglected or the performance aspects are overlooked, or even that the car isn't driven. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm a proponent of complete builds, which includes both all mechanical aspects of the car, AND quality body and paint work. I think a lot of people will shit on the body and paint aspect of the build because they either can't afford it or can't do it. So they'll dump on it as a gold-chainer thing or stupid, which is a cop out. I'd argue the true measure of a builder's skill is in body work. Even minimally competent DIYers can get an an engine to run and a car to stop. It takes real knowledge, patience, delicate skill and finesse, gained over years and years of experience, to cut a car apart and weld it back together again. And for those who truly desire to have the best, $30K for a paint job is just the retainer to get started.
I do my own painting. It’s not perfect or even close but I’m a cheap bastard and a hoarder so buying another complete car sounds better than buying a super expensive paint job for one I already have. I definitely understand though.
A couple years ago I was doing bodywork getting ready to paint one of mine. I walked out of the shop I was working in and went to the other to grab something. From the shop I’d just walked out of I heard a terrible racket. Ran back in to see one of my kids (probably 6 at the time) pounding the ever living shit out of the fender I was working using my body hammer. As I got up to him and the car he laid down the hammer and glided his hand across it (like an old pro) and declared “yep, feels pretty good”.
And that is dumb...regardless of intent or desire.
Our club meets every Saturday and builds cars that turn out like this from what we used to call a parts car. My forte is body & paint, been doing it for 50+ years as a hobby. But myself and one other member are seasoned mechanical techs as well. We teach the other members these skills on their car in their garage, no labor fee. I agree that the body and paint is very challenging but many mechanical bits have high difficulty levels as well depending on how deep you are into fabrication and machine work. But the end reward is worth it.
I can't see completing a car with dull paint or rust showing. Back in the day a car like that was embarrassing to drive and ready for the junkyard. Times have changed, or maybe paint has just gotten to expensive and restrictive in some home garages and has led to this craze .
The Viper Red on this car was around $1k per gallon. Expensive yes, but consider for about $3k in materials you can do a great body and paint yourself. If stuck, you can always get training from the local community college.
Noted the Valley Custom ad in 1954. Top quality body and paintwork has never been cheap.
As far as owning a ride with a high quality paint job it can be a source of constant concern where something a little less perfect can be a lot more fun, in my experience.
Different strokes for different folks. just my opinion however anyone who pays $1000 for a gallon of red paint has more money than brains. I only have about a grand in the entire 55 thats in my avitar.I can go to Tractor Supply and buy a gallon of Farmall red for about $40 and add a pint of super wet look hardner and make it as shiney as any you commonly see. I do sometimes paint stuff. I paint it so I can sell it for more money. Don't need paint on my personal vehicles.
Why all the hate for fake patina?????
^^^ See, just when I think I couldn't hate patina more, along comes paintman27 and his art. That is my kind of cool rust.
I remember a Arin Chee cartoon. He saved up to buy a high dollar McFarb paint job. And thakes his car to get it painted. McFarb takes Arin's car to Earl Schribe and hand,s them a extra twenty and says Earl throw a few handfuls of glitter in it.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people can't accept that there is an echelon of the automotive hobby that is virtually unattainable in terms of skill, moneatary cost, or both. And instead of being inspired by the products produced when high-end talent and large amounts of funding come together, it's dismissed as stupid. Even if that's not the sentiment here, it smacks of jealousy.
Don't forget, expensive is relative. For some, that $30K paint job is like buying a cup of coffee.
Thank you 57Joe, well said., the above post and the one posted earlier. Bob
As I said I am not bashing shiny cars. But a car that is super shiny well only hold my interest for so long.
Nelsen Dupre's 32 is a good example, the body and paint got my attention but it was all the trick fab work in the car that kept me looking. Every time I see this car I notice something I didn't notice before.
Nelson also has has a Murray Body Model A with an early hemi. The A has just as much trick fabrication as the 32 but I would say a good 25% of people never notice. Why you ask simple the Murray is in red primer and just walk by.
I fully agree with body and paint should be an advertisement for a body mans skills however in this case I look at the whole picture, If he overlooked a major component (transmission) is his own car what might he overlook in a customers car?
I still think its ridiculous, and its not jealousy. Such silliness is nothing more than an evolved symptom of the same nonsense that produced billet street rods, show cars that don't run, and old men in lawn chairs at car shows.
The rat rod movement, and its later transmogrification into beaters, ratty musclecars, zip tie drags, Roadkill, etc.....is what saved hot rodding. The hobby was quickly being eaten alive by codgers in fiberglass 32s and fanny pack wearing concourse muscle car guys. The realization that you can have fun, go fast, be loud, and not worry about paint and polish has ushered an entirely new generation into the fold.
Beside, $30k is a lot more fun when its under the hood than on it.
I much prefer the painting in your driveway type paint jobs. You gotta admit to pull that off and get good results requires a certain skill set. That's traditional. $1000 dollar a gal paint and big wheels and rubber band tires on a 66 muscle car is not.
BULLSHIT. Ratrods=crap Lots of us were traditional hotrodders decades before anyone ever heard of a ratrod
Another thread + different title = same views.
Fake patina,especially cleared fake patina screams rat rod to me.
Like a 3 year old screaming for attention.
Like anything, the rat rod craze has peaked and what's left is almost as ridiculous as the shiny street rods. The fact remains, however, that the rat rod movement, in it's infancy, showed the car world that fun, fast, and loud can exist without worrying about pretty. At its inception, it was more traditional than what we call traditional rods now....it simply took a life of its own. Love them or hate them....they lit a fire.
I started this thread not to bash on those who have, want, or built a car with a multi-thousand dollar body and paint work. I fully understand and respect what it takes to get a car to that level of fit and finish.
There have been countless Why primer?/Why flat black/Why Patina?, wanted to turn the tables and ask Why multi-thousand dollar body and paint work?
I explained my point of view in my opening post, I wanted to see how many people would explain their positions some like you and @The37Kid did.
Others ranted, raved, said anything that didn't have ultra shiny paint is/was a piece of shit, or use faulty science to try to prove their points. (So if a gloss paint car is faster than a flat paint car, A polished aluminum spoiler must make more down force than a brushed aluminum spoiler of the same size?)
If you can't argue your side with valid points or just rant and rave you don't really understand your side.
Early on in this thread it was said "Don't sell me a lump of shit and call it a candy bar. Rust is rust"
I think about Bud Hinman's 1969 championship winning Bug.
That same person would probably walk by this car based on it's outward appearance, but if you check out the chassis there was some very interesting things going on.
Robert, Could you just take a deep breath, two if you want to. You are trying to compare apples and oranges SHIT WELDED STOCK CARS vs Pebble Beach quality paint and body work. There is nothing in common. Great looking body work vs maybe fast Shit Welded crap. I'll let you figure out which camp in. Bob
To me rat rods are like rap music.They can't sing but found a way to get their foot in the door.Just my 2 cents
Threads like this make me wish I was a stamp collector or one of them fancy dress fellows at the Blue Oyster.
Earl Schieb $19.95 in 1957 or ‘58 with rattle can scallops. However, remember that there were no EPA regs on paint booths and Earl bought paint in 55 gallon barrels.
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