Hot Rods What external clutch slave

No input on the bearing itself but this is some good info on hydraulic throw out bearings from Engine Pro 5X and I would guess it is the cause of lots of the problems that people have.

I have ran a lot of different types of these t-o bearings when we were building dirt cars. After I saw plenty of these take a shit and all different brands I had to think something was up and I had to figure out what it was!! Here's my take, the clutch pedal has to have a stop on it so when the bearing reaches the end of it's travel the pedal and the master cylinder quit putting pressure on the t-o bearing. When it reaches the end of it's travel it can't withstand much more pressure. Set the stop so it quits pedal movement when the bearing stops going forwards. It worked for us >>>>.

 

I for sure was planning on making some type of stop. I may be running a wilwood pedal assembly or a Cnc separate clutch pedal

I like to see folks say that they have been able to run the bearings after some figuring

 

What K13 posted definitely makes sense. The hyd to bearing unit that leaked for me came from Speedway and lasted 1200 miles/2 years and had a stop . Makes a mess when it leaks! Not sure what the seal is in these units but if it is an o ring, it's asking a lot for an o ring to take that constant movement, 1/2 inch out and 1/2 inch in for each pedal stroke. If the vehicle sits for any length of time and the hydraulic fluid drains off the o ring, the next time it is actuated, when dry - would seem the o ring would get abraded. On a brake caliper it is only moving thousands of an inch on a pedal stroke and only one way. Your post asked about slave cylinders, IMO, a slave system is much better.

 

Yours leaked WITH a pedal stop?

Yes they are O rings. I've watched some videos of people rebuilding them to see how they work. I agree,I really don't see how they even deal at all really but.. I'm not an engineer

My car usually sits for a week at a time,in the super it is ran probably every Saturday. During non car show season it sits for probably a month or 2 at a time. I'm wondering if this would not be good for a hydraulic bearing

Still deciding on what setup to go with and what pedal setup.

 

Another option for you is a cable actuated system. That has been addressed here too. Since you are in the construction phase, you could set that up now. It's possible that Brizio's sells this set up.

 

That doesn't do anything for the clutch fork room problem

Also as I had said I need to run hanging pedals not floor pedals. I have no idea how to fit a cable quadrant setup in such a tight space for hanging pedals. Really doesn't solve anything. Would be easier to mount a clutch master in there.

My firewall is pulled into the car 3-4 inches,and it's channeled. I need the pedals to sit pretty close up against the firewall,and I'm dropping my floor pan on the driver side down between the frame and the bell to use the pedals. I have very large feet.I pretty much have to lower the floor,the car has been very uncomfortable to drive but I've just dealt with it till I needed to work on the car I told myself I'd change it

 

On the mis-match between the bell and retainer bearing, there are spacer rings available for a bellhousing with a too-large hole. I'd explore the truck passenger side fork some more. So you buy a tap and drill, good to have around.

 

i'm doing that exact same thing right now 28 on a 32 frame, 283 Saginaw 3 spd I too lowered the floor pans no room for linkage what I came up with is Rjays swinging pedals made for the early 60's chevy pu master and clutch combo. I looked at mounting a slave it's doable but not with out some compromises to the floor pan so I went with a ram hd bearing 200 dollars if it doesn't work I haven't changed anything that can't be made into the original plan slave cylinder.it ain't like I haven't ever spent a dime to try something new that didn't work. I think people over think things it's only money

 

It's only money? Maybe you'd like to lend me some? But seriously some of us are on really tight budgets. I can't piss away 200$.

Also I think I had mentioned I do not want some clunky master cylinders hanging on my firewall. It's bad enough I'm doing changes and will have some holes in my painted firewall that I'll have to put chrome plugs in or something. My clutch/brake master will be in the dash. That's the one thing I'm sure on.ill be going with a 90 degree brake pedal setup and a separate clutch pedal assembly with a reverse mount clutch master cylinder.this will give my speedometer some room (53 ford car dash)

I'd like to know if your bearing works.
It looks like if I modified a fork and compromise some floor a MAY be able to use a fork on the driver side but it would be pretty tight and probably better off to try the passenger side.

 

Just FYI, My slave operates very well. I don't feel its slow at all. Of course the car never had a mechanical linkage but I cant imagine mechanical would be any faster, or at least noticeably faster. I also cant imagine working with less room like you have to do, its friggin tight in my 31 next to bell and I'm not channeled, or a 28-29, so you definitely have some obstacles to overcome. You'll get it.

 

Keep in mind being gutted it looks like there's more room than there really is!

Yeah I've heard folks say they are slow but I can't imagine that being true. I'm still torn between trying to cut the clutchfork and make it swoop forward,or mount it on the passenger side,or buy a hydraulic bearing but ram says their expensive one is what they'd use (of course)

 

That's tight, but it looks about how mine is. Let me see if I can find a pic...

 

It's worse than it looks,bad angle but it's all I had. The floor will be coming down 3-4 inches roughly so it will be dead in in the way of the fork.

Ram has assured me their HD bearing is what I'd need which is more money,at this point a passenger side conversion would be cheaper

 

Personally I would go with a R/H external slave; just because I know they work.

Wonder if someone makes a large bore version of those backward, over the pedal, under dash masters compatible with a stock GM slave.

Some of those alum bells had the outline of the cut-out on the inside and a place in the casting to drill and tap for the pivot ball.

Sure hear more "horror" stories about after market hyd throw out brgs than praise for them.

 

X2 on what Rich said about horror stories on hyd TO bearings. If youre sure a driver side clutch arm wont work, Id consider a right side arm before I went with a hyd TO deal, but that's just me. I know some guys have had good luck with them, but I had trouble finding them.
Photobucket basically has all my build pics held for ransom, so I was unable to pull the pic I wanted to show. I can take a pic and text to you if you want. I still think you can get a fork on driver side, but youre looking at your car and I could be totally incorrect. Advise in PM if you want a pic,

 

Would the Chevy II/Nova bellhousing with it’s lower fork position be of any help?

 

Agree with both of you. And I'm starting to lean that way. It's slightly cheaper too,more work but cheaper and easier to service.

Well a fork would fit on the driver side if I did not lower the floor,but I need to lower it a good bit. Thinking the thickness of the frame so you won't see it under the car. Basically making the floor have a pocket for the frame rail,and a bucket for my feet. I've got a size 13,and my toes are running into everything and I was very cramped with just my one pedal. Figuring swing pedals mount close to each other under the column with the floor dipped down would work.

Rich-I'm going to go with one of those 90 degree brake pedal setups and then a separate reverse master clutch pedal with a wilwood master on it (facing in the car) clean firewall and the 90 degree brake master gives me room for the speedometer area. Not as clean as a all built in one setup but it will save me 100 from the kugel setup,and I'll be able to service the mechanisms separate if one should have an issue



On a separate note,going to order a clutch. Should I get a 10.5 or a 10"? And should I get the raised curved fingers? Or just the flat fingers?

 

10 or 10.5 will both get the job done but go with the bent finger. The early flat finger diaphragms GM used had a nasty habit when power shifting at high RPM. Centrifugal force would cause the fingers to stay down and they would not come back to the clutch engaged position until the revs came down. Otherwise there is no difference, just be sure to use the correct t/o bearing.

 

I think mine has the lower fork position, not sure on that m,this car is very low though so it may actually hit the ground if it was lower. I busted the pan on my th350 that was in this car before coming of of a driveway.

 

I've heard something like that before too,so I'm sure you are correct on that. Bent finger it is

 

Search eBay to see a Chevy II/Nova bell. The regular bells have the fork horizontal, the early Chevy II fork is angled down between 7-8 o’clock or so.

 

Wish I would of known that before I got mine.

Yep looks like it would work. Already got 100 into my bell (I think it's camaro)

 

Just so I don’t lead you down the wrong path check if the bells on eBay are for V8. If they are from a six cylinder Chevy II they might be too small to fit a 10.5” PP, I don’t know if there is a difference.

 

The bolt pattern on the ones I seen look like my v8 bell.

But it looks like it would actually make the fork hang down pretty low for my car. I'm worried it hit it or the slave cylinder on the ground.

I may just convert it to the passenger side. It would save me a few bucks too,just not too sure how to mount the slave cylinder near the starter

I'm definitely with you on the external slave vs the hydraulic bearing. I've searched long and hard to find anyone with anything good to say about them and still have not really found any. Seems like they have a much higher failure to success rate

 

The Nova bell, the fork is at the 7 o'crotch position. Even the 6-banger bell should take the 10.5" clutch, which I've always said was 10.375". I believe they only made one aluminum bellhousing regardless of 6 or 8 cylinder.

 

Yes Ive looked them up since,looks like they'd put the clutch slave right at the oil filter though

I may just drill it and mount on the other side. Tap and drill will cost me about 30$ vs 100 of a new bell.

 

This type of clutch okay to run? Never really seen one like that.looks like chunks of brass?

 

Any advice on cheap/affordable clutch? The one above is pretty inexpensive. I only have about 300hp and probably same torque.

 

Maybe start a new thread on your clutch question; probably get a better response than tagged on to the slave cyl thread.

 

Totally agree with you. Just figured I had a good bunch of guys on here that could give me their opinion.