I have a Ford 302 with a performer intake. Mild cam, headers, hot ignition, the typical stuff. Trying to figure out what to get for a 4bbl carb. I had a eldebrock 1406 that ran well until the throttle shafts wore out. Couldn't get the vacuum secondaries to come in consistently though, even when new. I have a street demon 625 cfm, the off idle response is super crisp, but it literally floods the engine the moment the seconaries come in. Just like dumping raw gas down the manifold. Changed the jets and needles and air valve, and no real improvement. I've had a lot of problems with holley, but they were old beat up junkers. I'm wondering if a new one would be a better experience. What kind of carb do you like?
Every time this question is asked all you get are 100 different opinions from 100 different people. Some love Edelbrock, some love Holley, some love Quadrajets. Who is right ? My personal opinion is that Edelbrocks are a more forgiving street carb than Holleys, but Holleys put out a little more HP. Quadrajets are not bad carb, but not used as often as the other 2 brands, maybe because of the odd pattern of small and big butterflies. A lot depends on what the person posting has used and what luck they have had with them. I have run single and dual four barrel setups for years using Edelbrock and AFB carbs, so that is the direction I always go. I ran a 302 set up pretty much like yours in my Jeep pickup for about 5 years on the street and it was flawless and gave good performance. Don
I predict this thread will damn near be useless before it's over. It's almost like asking which do you like better Ford or Chevy. I've run both Holley and Edelbrock in the past. In my opinion Edelbrock has been more consistent with the quality then Holley of late. Had two Holley 750's that would not idle and you could turn the air mixture screws all the way in and it had no effect on anything. I don't think you should have to tear into a metering block on a new carb, but then maybe I'm just picky.
I would stick with the 1406. Check around for a local carb rebuilder to re-bush the throttle shafts, or contact Edelbrock for a replacement throttle plate. Ether option will be much cheaper than a new carb, without the hassles and headaches of a used POS. Good Luck, Tim
I do a little carb rebuilding and all have their positive/negative points, with that said, the AFB design (Edelbrock) is a fine simple design and I would urge you to consider a 500 cfm as the calculator will show that as the correct size unless you are really reving it above 5500 rpm, I think a 600 on a 302 would need to rev to 6700 to use that 600, good luck.
I have quit using Holleys completely...now we only use Quick Fuel carbs...the last 10 or 12 that we have installed needed only to be taken out of the box and started up...and most were the very inexpensive ($300) Slayer series...Marvin and the crew up there have done an amazing job...........and Holley just bought them out...one big circle.......... Mark
I've always thought that out of the box you can't beat an edelbrock. If you're willing to do some tuning or want more power then Holley.
I run a Holley 600cfm double pumper on my similarly equipped 302. Been on there for 2+ years and I haven't had to touch it since installed. Petty good gas mileage if I keep my foot out of it(rarely) 16-17 mpg.
I have used most 4 barrel carburetors mentioned in the previous reply's and i have had better luck with the Edelbrock carburetors. I have them on all 3 of my hot rods,,, A Holley is probably a good carburetor for the guy that likes to adjust and fiddle with it,,,I ain't one of those guys,,I want simple & reliable and the last Holley I had was neither. HRP
I really like Holley carbs. I have taken a bunch of Holley parts bought at a swap meet, and make a great carb.... The first thing I do is plug the power valve, then jet accordingly....People say I am nuts, I like a crisp throttle and a lot of response... Last year I didn't like the way my 40 was runnin. edlebrock carb.... SO I took the plunge, got a rebuild kit metering rods jets ect.... With a lot of studying, I did rebuild this 600 edlebrock with great success as well. I am comfortable with Holleys, once I set mine its done.... But this edlebrock, after I went through it, is a great carb as well... You gotta go with what your comfortable with...I have a hard time thinkin your flooding out your 302 with your vacuume secondary carb... Something else is wrong. I had an 850 double pumper on my 302... It gave a little black smoke out the exaust on a punch, but cleared out nicely at higher RPM's.... Rich is tq, so I was happy
I have a 750 vac secondary on my 302, its a stock 5.0 from a stang. but with an intake and headers. I drive it everyday, to work, to the track and even in snow storms going to plow(my truck situation didnt work out for the winter...) Gets great gas mileage, and starts the second you touch the key. I love it, I had teething problems with it of course, mostly due to never having worked on a carb before lol.
One big advantage of a 4150/4160 Holley (starting with an excellent design) is the ability to easily adjust and tune the carb's fuel calibration, along with optional bowl, float, fuel inlet and choke conversions and changes. Critical parts are readily available, and several Holley books have been written over the last 40+years that go into much detail on understanding the operation and dis/assembly. Add the fact they just look better on a Ford V8! JMO I'm not knocking other carbs, but I'm very comfortable with, and will stick with The old Holleys.
Couple things, the edelbrock is a mechanical secondary and the throttle shafts just don't 'wear out'. I bet your 1406 just need some cleaning and it'll be just like new. I do tons of carbs, if your want top performance then it'd be a doublepumper of some sort - holley, quickfuel, proform amoung others. If you want reliability and prettymuch trouble free and edelbrock is the ticket. The absolute last carb i'd put on is the holley 4160 style, vacuum secondary. They work ok on a stock engine with a strong vacuum signal and limited operating range. They don't translate well onto a hot roddy type motor.
I don't see anybody recommending the "dashpot" carb lol..not that it would work on a ford I guess anyway. I like the simplicity of the Ebrock, for the street it works for me. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Only experience I have is with holleys. So not that the AFBs are junk but I don't have any personal experience with them My old falcon had a .030" over 302, warmed over hyd roller, aluminum heads, etc. Put a 670 street avenger on it. Made 301rwhp through a t5 and the A/F was perfect out of the box.
Edelbrock is vacuum secondary. AFB series employ a counter-weighted air valve. AVS series use a spring-loaded air valve. From "How to Rebuild and Modify Carter/Edelbrock Carburetors" page 53. It also says, on the same page, "Irrespective of the method employed, the concept is designed to precisely tailor carburetor airflow capacity to engine requirements, rather than providing 'too much too soon,' as can be the case with mechanical secondary opening."
I do agree with V8 Bob about a Holley looking better atop an engine, they tend to be longer and fill up the top of the manifold a little more, especially when you are only running one carb. Don
I didn't know you could get a base for the edelbrock, i'm going to look into that. I never could get the secondaries to come in right on that carb though. I was looking at the AVS because they're adjustable, thinking that would help. That street demon is a 625, and will completely flood the plugs when the secondaries come in. You can smell raw gas in the car. Tech support was great, I sent the carb out, and got it back a couple weeks later. But then, this one does the exact same thing. Well, a little worse actually. So I think it's a design issue. I have low vacuum (15" idle, about 12" in gear sitting), and I don't think any of these carbs like that.
The problem with big cams and carbs at idle is that the rpm screw needs to be cranked up a lot to get them to idle. That exposes the transfer slot in the throttle plate bore drawing fuel from there AND the idle mixture hole, causing the rich idle condition. Drill a small hole in the throttle plate ( start small and go bigger till you get it right) that way you can back the rpm screw down and get out of the transfer slot area yet still have enough airflow going to keep the engine running.
My suggestion is totally different from everybody else. I suggest one Carter WCFB preferrably from a 60s GM or Chrysler engine. They flow 520CFM which is more than you need for the street. My personal 289(in a 40 Ford) uses a Shelby 2X4 intake that I mounted two 56 GM WCFBs on. These carbs have about 375 CFM each. Throttle response is very good and top end is more than enough with both carbs open. Finding a early WCFB requires some searching but I think you will like the results. Besides, they are cheap when found-----because they arn't a Holley or a AFB type carb.
I've got a working, low-mileage Edelbrock 1406, but have been wanting to try a Street Demon as it is more like the Thermoquad my Mopar 383 would have come with. Want to swap? I'm serious as it would give us both the chance to try something different with no $ outlay but the postage to send them.
I have a 289 +.030 with stock heads and an RV cam in my 27 roadster. I had a 1406 on it, but it ran too rich no matter what jets I used. Bought a brand new Holley 390cfm 4bbl and it works just fine. I don't think a warmed over sbf needs 600cfm.
I rebuilt a Holley 600 w/vacuum secondaries and got 23" of vacuum at idle... Once I got it tuned, I'd turn the idle rpm down to 350 rpm and the motor still ran... Unbelievable!!! The motor was a stock 5.0L roller motor with the efi taken off and replaced with a Performer intake and dura-spark distributor with a "steel" gear...
Unless it came on the engine from the factory, and the engine is stock; then the very best brand of carburetor for anyone is the brand they are the most familiar with; or want to learn about. Anything else will need varying levels of modification to get it right! Having said that, you cannot go wrong if you apply the "ABC's of carburetion!" Jon.
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