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Technical What clutch slave?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mcmopar, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,590

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I'm slowly but Shirley (don't call me Shirley) getting everything figured out. The next part to figure out is the slave cylinder.
    Here's the set up 1970 318, 1995 ax15 trans, with stock clutch and throw out bearing. It has a under floor pedal. I done alot of reading on different ways to go. When I get all the parts for my tremec I will get a McLeod bearing, but right now I want to get it running and driving for the summer.
    The question is what slave cylinder? I have limited space with no knowledge on this. Read alot of threads and no one says what slave, just what bearing they are using. One these had a little purple slave mounted to the tranny, and one said 85 Chevy truck. Once I have that then what about the from the pedal to the slave? Here's the area I'm working in and what it looks like. If we need more pics of the area let me know.
    Tony 20170418_074521.jpg 20170418_074506.jpg 20170418_074440.jpg
     
  2. What does the stock slave look like for that?
     
  3. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,144

    Fordors
    Member

    The easy way looks to be using the OEM slave that bolts right up to the bellhousing. The master cylinder bore is important here, it needs to be smaller than the slave.
    The big issue appears to be the limited space for the clutch and brake master cylinders.
     
  4. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,590

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Here is the master and the slave cylinder.[​IMG][​IMG]
     

  5. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,590

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Fordors, the master for the brakes is mounted. I habe been looking at a wilwood one slave and master that are smaller. Problem with factory is size and it's a press fitting for the line not a screw in one.
     
  6. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,610

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm at this point with my build. I found out that the earlier (<91 ) slave uses a flare fitting and has a bleeder port. Im working with GM parts but the pronciple should be about the same for the Dodge.
     
  7. I had the same problem a couple years ago. There's company that sells an adapter to convert the factory style roll pin line to an AN fitting. Check this thread out, has part numbers and everything ---->

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/ax15-slave-cylinders-what-are-you-all-using.751391/
     
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    [​IMG]
    Advance Adapters: http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/716130tj--master-cylinder-fitting-for-jeep-tj-wrangler/

    Check the fine print to match you exact parts.

    Put this in and you are then at -3 AN. There are enumerate lengths and configurations of premade hose.
     
  9. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,120

    gene-koning
    Member

    The master on my 92 Dakota is 3" long, off the firewall. Anything behind the firewall should be able to adjust to the length you need. The plastic line clips into place, and you should be able to adjust the length of the plastic tube to whatever length you need. New line and ends should be available at nearly any parts store. The slave cylinder isn't much longer, and it bolts to the studs on the bell. There is a bleeder valve on the slave.

    All you should have to do is create a mounting point on your clutch pedal bracket to hold the master, and attach the rod so that when the pedal is depressed, the rod is pushed into the master. When you get all done, the slave cylinder will push the rod about 3/4" out when the pedal is depressed. Its about as simple as one can get.

    The clutch stuff inside the bell is like the old fashioned stuff. a clutch disc, a pressure plate, and a good old normal throw out bearing with no fluid going to it. All the hydraulic stuff is outside the bell, in the form of the slave, the plastic line, and the master. Gene
     
  10. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,590

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Here is what I have come up with, 1999 jeep wrangler clutch slave with .826 inch bore (Dakota is a 1 inch bore). The jeep slave has a bleeder and the Dakota don't. Is there any other problems with the bore? Is my pedal going to be harder, softer, enough throw. I am thinking about the Wilwood 260-15090 GS Compact Remote Master Cylinder, 0.70 Inch, (Jeeps are a .709 inch to match the slave) and a advanceadapter that gimpyshotrods showed me.

    gene, already got all the stuff in the tranny just trying to get the outside stuff. Creating the mounting point is the easy part for me, just need to figure out what works together. I have the master off of the Dakota, just not enough room. I will post pics when this setup is done.
    Tony
     
  11. I think the .826 slave and .709 master would be a nice combination. I'm running a .750 master and .875 slave so the proportions are about the same.
     
  12. 34toddster
    Joined: Mar 28, 2006
    Posts: 1,481

    34toddster
    Member
    from Missouri

    We did a 33 ford with a 5 speed and had to use a 13/16 Wilwood master with a 3/4 slave to get enough travel to disengage the clutch
    We started with 3/4 3/4 and only got about 95% travel ratio from the master to slave, not enough to disengage the disc.
     
  13. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If the clutch master cylinder bore is a little bigger than stock, the pedal will be a little harder, and there will be a little more travel at the slave end.

    Just make sure you are not overdriving the slave. You don't want to blow the end off.

    You might need to adjust the clutch master cylinder pushrod to make sure that the pedal hits he floor a little past full release, but before bottoming out (or worse) the slave cylinder. I might be over-worrying here, but double-check.

    Now, If the clutch slave cylinder bore is a little bigger than stock, the pedal will be a little softer, and there will be a little less travel at the slave end.

    It is all about how much volume (assuming the same stroke) of fluid is moved, and where it is moved to.

    Large bore master cylinder, larger volume, but it spreads your applied force over a wider area (lower psi).

    Small bore master cylinder, smaller volume, but it spreads your applied force over a smaller area (higher psi). To get the same volume as the bigger one, you have to push it farther, and vice versa.

    On the slave end: The larger the bore, the more fluid needs to be pushed in to get the piston to travel the same amount.
     
  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
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    You know that you can easily convert that AX15 to a cable driven speedometer, right?
     
  15. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,590

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    No I didn't but I sure would like to here how. I plan on using my original spedo. When I get all the parts for the clutch on and setup I will take some pics and post.I believe I can adjust the pushrod to get everything adjusted right for the clutch.
    Tony
     
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This doo-dad:


    Is the electric sender for the speedometer in the original configuration. If you look closely, you will see that it is held in with a big fork, retained by a nut. You will also see that it appears that can be installed in more than one position, if rotated. It can. It does this because it has the capability to take a wide variety of GEARS!

    Here's one (in a different application):
    [​IMG]
    Chrysler did this so they could quickly adapt to an electronic VSS, without redesigning other big hardware.

    The numbers on the black housing are the gear tooth range:
    [​IMG]
    Here 32-38 teeth. You put the gear in, and put the retainer teeth in the slot with the correct range.

    These went into place of the old-school Mopar speedometer drives.

    Have a look a this. Same on the transmission side, cable connection on the outside:
    [​IMG]

    Same gears, on both setups.

    The math is up to you, but you want "Dodge long shaft speedometer gear".

    https://transmissioncenter.net/shop/almost-new-100-useable-dodge-speedometer-gears/
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  17. mkubacak
    Joined: Jun 20, 2005
    Posts: 171

    mkubacak
    Member

  18. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,590

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Do I just take the part that the spedo cable screws into out of another tranny, and then put this gear on? If so that sure would make it easy, just need to find a old tranny. Does it matter if it comes out of a 904, or 727? I believe my dad has a few laying around.
    Tony
     
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    1. Yup.
    2. Nope, even New Process transfer cases, in the pre-EFI era.

    Swap gears as necessary to calibrate your speedometer. It's that easy.
     
  20. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 890

    PackardV8
    Member

    The OEMs pretty much gave up on slave cylinders and went to hydraulic throwout bearings. Why not just use a complete factory pick'n pull master cylinder and bearing? Cheap to buy, easy to mount and all the thinking has been done for us.

    I used a GM pickup throwout bearing behind a Packard V8 in a Studebaker pickup using another Stude brake master cylinder to power it and kept the under-floor pedals, so the later Mopar should be cake.

    jack vines
     
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,893

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The shops make good money when you come in for a clutch replacement, when your hydraulic throwout bearing hoses down your clutch. So do tow operators.

    I won't install them, because I cannot warranty them. Anything that can immobilize the vehicle from a tiny leak, and requires a transmission pull to replace, should not be installed in ANY vehicle, especially not a used example of one.

    The AX15 setup posted above comes as a pre-bled master and slave combo, and can be swapped out in under 15-minutes, with no special tools, on the side of the road, in just about any place that has a auto parts store.

    Do that with a hydraulic throwout bearing....
     
    34toddster likes this.

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