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Technical What cam for B Banger

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by höllenteufel, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. höllenteufel
    Joined: Jul 16, 2014
    Posts: 64

    höllenteufel
    Member

    Hello everybody,

    for my '29 coupe I have a B banger wich I wanna hop up. Plan is:
    Lion Speed Head III, scalded dod intake, reds headers 4into2, FS ignition with flame thrower coil, 1 stromberg 97 carb, insert main bearings and rods with inserts. Now the question what camshaft do I throw in that banger?
    I thought about three options:
    • Bill Stipe Winfield A/B Racegrind - $165
    • Bill Stipe 340 Touring cam (great low and mid range torque, as they say) - $409
    • Bill Stipe Road Runner 340 (low and mid range power as they say) - $409
    Think I would go with the larger intake valves also, cause I have to give the engine to the machine shop anyway.

    What would be the best price/performance ratio?
    And, would it be good to run adjustable lifters or would the 1.1 diameter non adjustable good enough?

    Thanks for your help
    Luke
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  2. I had a Winfield SU-1R in mine and liked it. I ran adjustable lifters. Remember to swap the fiber cam gear for an aluminum one as well...
     
  3. höllenteufel
    Joined: Jul 16, 2014
    Posts: 64

    höllenteufel
    Member

    Throw out the fiber cause it can't stand the power?

    I'm not that hard into the cams yet. Is the SU-1R the A/B Racegrind for 165 or the Superstreet 3/4 race regrind?

    What adjustable lifters did you have?
     

  4. The fiber cam gear will not like a choppy cam and you chance shearing the teeth off. I could not tell you what grind it is, I did this years ago and remember researching that as a good cam to run. I also do not remember what lifters I used, they were old, not new.
     

  5. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,173

    waxhead
    Member
    from West Oz

    Luke, I just posted this response over in the Banger thread.

    Luke, see the attached link for some details on Bill Stipe cams and the recommended lifters to use. I have recently bought a 340 touring cam, but haven't installed it yet, so can't comment on performance gain over the touring grind cam I currently have installed. Last time I checked, there was a bit of a wait to get new cams from Bill Stipe, but I managed to get one of the shelf from AER ( http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com ) Good luck with your engine.
     
  6. höllenteufel
    Joined: Jul 16, 2014
    Posts: 64

    höllenteufel
    Member

    Thanks Waxhead. Think I'll contact Bill with some of my questions and see what's his suggestion.
     
  7. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,173

    waxhead
    Member
    from West Oz

    I installed Dan McEachern bronze gears, very nice quality. Provide good peace of mind over the fibre gears. His e-mail address is dmcgears@yahoo.com
     
  8. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,173

    waxhead
    Member
    from West Oz

    If you are going to go with a reground cam, I would also contact Jim Brierley 4-port Riley here on the HAMB. I have read lots of good feedback on his cams.
     
  9. The Brown Sound
    Joined: Dec 18, 2014
    Posts: 131

    The Brown Sound
    Member
    from Maryland

    Is there any benefit to going oversize on the exhaust valves as well as intake?
     
  10. höllenteufel
    Joined: Jul 16, 2014
    Posts: 64

    höllenteufel
    Member

    As far as I know no. I read a bit of Jim Brierley somewhere in the web and it said, they are good size, so you don't have to go bigger.
     
  11. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,199

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    I have a Dan McEachern aluminum gear . no troubles . I would talk to Jim Brierley as he builds cams . ......... good luck
     
  12. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,199

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    waxhead , I think we have similar motors ........
     
    waxhead likes this.
  13. höllenteufel
    Joined: Jul 16, 2014
    Posts: 64

    höllenteufel
    Member

    Just read about the Dan McEachern bronze gear and found it on modelaparts.net. sounds good to get it
     
  14. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,199

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    no brainer there , but be sure on the cam . ask a lot of questions & state what you expect out of it ..........
     
  15. höllenteufel
    Joined: Jul 16, 2014
    Posts: 64

    höllenteufel
    Member

    Yes. Wrote Bill and asked a lot and told him what I want. Looking forward to his answer.
     
  16. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 97

    PhredH

    Luke,
    My engine is very similar to your plan. I've used a Stipe 340 cam for the past 4 years and love it, Engine pulls past 3500 rpm. Have had cam gear problems. Shortly after rebuilding engine with the 340 using a new crank gear and a new fiber cam gear, the fiber gear lost some teeth. Replaced the fiber gear with a bronze gear of unkown manufacture and it ran great for 2 - 3 years until the cast iron crank gear lost all its teeth. Obviously the cast iron crank gear was more brittle that the bronze cam gear.
    Replaced all with a Dan McEachern bronze gear with matching steel crank gear. No problems in the past year of hard driving and not expecting any more came drive problems.
    Would recommend the 340 cam and new gears as above if its in the budget. Hope this helps
    cam gear 2014.jpg new cam gear.jpg
     
  17. Another consideration about a cam is that sometimes you can order new cams with the journals oversize to make up for wear in the block.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  18. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,511

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm running a B stock grind in my A powered '31 Cabby. Aluminum cam gear. Lion III head with a 7.3:1 CR. Inserted rods and mains. I have on order one of rockman29 timing covers to give the cam some thrust. I am experiencing cam walk with out it. Adjustable lifters. Oil pump work to increase flow. B distributor, the Lion III likes advanced timing. I am running a Burns single down draft manifold with a Holly 94 with adjustable mains. I could not get the flow from the 97. I believe you will like the results of the Lion III head.
    3:78 rear gear with a Mitchell A transmission and drive line OD helps with road speed. I just installed the OD and Transmission don't know what I like or dislike about them yet. At the same time I installed a V8 clutch, no comparison to the A stock clutch. It makes it so much more drivable.
    Short answer, B stock grind cam with the Lion III head gives me good low end torque to climb the 18% grade on the drive at 7000' elevation to my casa along with a decent high end performance ( I lost my hair at 82 MPH and backed out, suspension/steering is the next project).


    Larry
     
  19. colinsmithson
    Joined: Jan 27, 2013
    Posts: 383

    colinsmithson
    Member

    Hi Luke
    The a couple of things you did not mention were are you staying with the stock oiling system and which crankshaft you will be using these will may a difference to cam shaft chose
    Stock oiling system is OK up to around 4000 rpm so a cam that that pulls past that is wasted
    A counter weighted Crankshaft will handle the higher rpm better than uncounted weighted crankshaft
    I have built lot of these of the years and seen lot of them built by others that have gone for the big cam only to have more cam then the rest of the engine can handle
    There lots of cam out there take the time to and do lots of research
    go with bigger valves but check you have enough iron left between the seat and water jacket
    as for lifters I prefer the Mopar lifters much better than anything else you can buy and any cam you use will love them and they will work with any cam you can fit into the a A/B block
    Gears go with Dans best around
     
    bundybiker likes this.
  20. höllenteufel
    Joined: Jul 16, 2014
    Posts: 64

    höllenteufel
    Member

    Think I will go with dans gears. Sounds good, what you guys told me and what I read about it. For the crank I will go with the counterweighted B crank, that's already in the engine and will stay with the stock oiling of the B engine.

    About the mopar lifters? Which ones did you get, that fit?
     
  21. colinsmithson
    Joined: Jan 27, 2013
    Posts: 383

    colinsmithson
    Member

    Any of the mopars that had Chrysler 6 cyl flathead lots of NOS around you do need to ream the bore but as most lifter bores will be worn anyway no big problem
     
  22. boo
    Joined: Jul 6, 2005
    Posts: 566

    boo
    Member
    from stuart,fl.

    have a 29 phaeton w/+.125 bore, snider head, large int. valves, mdl B cam, B carb & int, cnter balance crank, balanced eng, incert brngs, 35 lb. fly whl, v-8 cltch & p plate. borg warner OD [hooked so i can use od any gear w/switch, but DON"T backup in OD], 3.78 rear w/6:00x16 tires. looks stock, but runs up-down mountains in NC great.
     
  23. boo
    Joined: Jul 6, 2005
    Posts: 566

    boo
    Member
    from stuart,fl.

    befor i built my last banger, i called Harvey Crane about a cam. Harvey started out with A,B, flthead cars, he instantly went into all about A cams, he said that verry quick the A cams would wear to .288 in, that is exactly what my cam was worn to. i wanted a B or touring cam, he gave me a man who has his cam profiles and said i wanted his #302 cam, he reground my cam to that, i'm happy w/it. Harvey has died, but he had a cam school in daytona beach and had 4 page list of all kinds of A-B cams and their specs, don't know if school is still there or where specs are, i have an ENGLE 5brng cam that he didn't have specs on and wanted me to bring him the cam so he could spec. it, i never made it. if you can find his story, it is very interesting
     
  24. Juggler
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 77

    Juggler
    Member

    I found this list of Mr Brierley's available cam specs a while back

    BRIERLEY CAMS
    39480 Colleen Way
    Temecula , Ca. 92592-8438
    951-695-3713
    Jimb4e4@gmail.com

    DIRECT ACTING (FLATHEAD) CAMS
    No. duration lift int. exh. (Clearances)

    B 255 .302 012 014 excellent for mild eng.
    C 260 .322 012 014 needs good core

    All of the cams listed below need other engine modifications in order to take advantage of their capabilities. The "more" cam you use, the more modifications needed. This includes bigger or more carbs, headers, bigger valves, better ignition, etc. Idle gets progressively worse. The best single modification needed to boost performance in a Model 'A' is to increase the compression ratio, next is a bigger carburetor or multiple carbs.

    1R 266 .350 010 012 Winfield grind - fast action, decent idle

    270 270 .355 012 014

    274 274 .350 012 014

    M-28 T 280 .355 012 014 Idle starts getting rough

    1A 285 .362 010 012 Winfield grind - good competition cam

    285V 286 .385 012 014 competition only

    410 FI 288 .410 Good top end, Bonneville or Lakes

    290 290 .360 012 014

    295V 296 .391 015 015 no low end power

    270V 278 .324 012 014 flathead or Cragar (1.25:1 rockers)

    280V 280 .336 012 014 fair idle, flathead or Cragar

    VALVE SPRINGS
    Stock installed spring length is approx. 2½ inches. Spring pressure at that length is approximately 32 lbs. Following is a chart giving spring pressures at different lengths. (Model A springs). A Metal cam gear is recommended on all performance grinds and is a good idea even with a stock cam. An aluminum gear works well and are not noisy as some claim.

    LENGTH PRESSURE
    2 3/8" 40 # (Recommended for stock B or C cam)
    2 1/4" 52 # Note: A spacer made from 3/4" water pipe
    2 1/8" 62 # works nicely and will stay in place if
    2" 73 # cut off squarely, such as done in a lathe.
    1 7/8" 83 #

    Coil bind occurs at approx. 1 1/2" (with A springs) 60 lbs. pressure, on the seat, is recommended for most "street" cams/engines. 90 lbs. is recommended for racing, a different type of spring is needed for racing engines in order to achieve this pressure.

    I've got a Winfield SU1 R in my B motor and am very pleased with it

    Cheers

    Juggs
     
  25. Is anyone using a 1A on the street? Any problems with idle?
     

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