What are some questions to consider before selecting a shop to work on your ride?

I have to say the Worst job I ever took on was working for a Customer that thought and talked like he really could have done the Job himself just didn't have a place to do it. He even had me pretty convinced of his ability. Not far into the job things had gotten difficult. I agreed to let him do some things himself in my space and with my tools. 4 weeks latter the car was For Sale and we were done. Believe it or not we are still friends. He went and bought a finished car and was a lot happier. I have since done some repairs on that car for him and he has never tried to tell me how or what to do and willingly pays his bill. I like the happy ending.
The Wizzard

 

Contact their past clients,,you will learn rather quickly the work ethic,not to mention the quality of the build and if the end result was preformed in a timely & satisfactorily manor. HRP

 

I have a shop and I can honestly say all of my customers are my friends. If they weren't when the project started, they quickly became friends because that's how I treat them. We discuss every aspect of the project and proceed with a mutual understanding of what it takes to make their dream happen.

Most don't have a clue on what it takes to build a complete car. It ALWAYS costs more and takes longer than ANYONE can anticipate so, estimates are wild ass guesses at best. I often have to re-do work that was done before by someone else either because it was done poorly, out of sequence for the project, or the owner changes direction. Things take longer because new parts don't fit, old parts need more work than expected, parts are delayed or not available at all.

Rarely will you find a shop that can do EVERYTHING and when you do, they are typically on the high end. We do most things in house but, sub-contract things like powder coating, and upholstery, that's how most shops run.

You need to find someone who is willing and able to take the time to understand your vision for the car and together you need to have realistic expectations for how that is going to be accomplished. Then you need to be ready to step up and pay that person for their time and effort.

 

This sure has been an education.

 

Be willing to take it to another city if need be.

I echo what DRD 57 said...heck take it to him!

 

You know if your gunna be a customer you may as well be a good one. Whats a bad customer ever get?

 

Sounds like he had a deal with a shop and apparently it has not worked out. Though the 9 years has me puzzled as there is no way in hell I would ever wait that long.

So lets hear it greaseball, whats the rest of the story?

 

The shop that finished out my car had done many other top notch award winning cars in my area. They are proud to tour the shop with customers, and perspective customers. They do "everything" or have connections to another shop that does, and allow them to use their space if needed.
They didnt charge a flat rate for every sort of work, the price varied with the job. aka, exhaust systems were one rate, body work another, electrical another...
They were able to see the visions of customs and werent afraid to step outside the mold and do non cookie cutter vehicles.

overall, im glad to have my car on the road after almost 25 years. it wasnt cheap, but was 100 percent worrth it to have my car running down the road just as i wanted it, in a quality of workmanship better than i could have ever imagined doing on my own.

 

As a shop owner, I never take on a vechicle that I don't intend to work every day until it is finished. A job with as many different tasks that yours has, is imposible to estimate in the begining. (it will probably be at least twice the value of a finished car)

Ask the shop owner to complete one task and see if it meets your standards and price expectations AND done in the time frame agreed upon.

If this works out good for both of you, you can then go onto bigger tasks with an estimate AND a TIME FRAME SET.

Eventualy, you will be able (or not) to continue until completion.

One important thing to remember is how many times a part must be installed before it fits the ajacent parts, and then removed again for painting! And every time must be paid for as part of the job.

 

1). Drop the attitude that they are out to screw you over.

2). Get your estimate and your quote/quotes in writing.

3). Ask for regular photographic/video updates for your archives.

4). Have the money to cover the projected cost and double it - in a separate account before work commences.

5). Ask for Bi-weekly billing so that you can track expenditure/progress.

6). Check on previous builds, references from past customers and general word of mouth on the shop's reputation.

7). Remember that this is a contract and it requires a professional attitude and responsibilities from both parties.

8). Have any parts needed ordered well ahead of time. Suppliers are not always timely, nor do they always know when they might be getting them.

9). Have a lawyer handy and hope that you never have to use them but have them check out the contract anyway.

10). Treat this as a business deal, as you would want to conduct business. If you have problems, try to look at the issues from the other guy's point of view so you can see where they are coming from before going off the deep end.

 

I wouldnt do business with you ... you got red flags flying like a chinese may day parade but expect to do busness with all agreements IN WRITING and all followup conversations in e-mail (again, in writing) .... when you attempt to sue your builder for not properly indexing your valve stems the judge is going to laff you out of court if all you have is verbal promises..... it works both ways.

 

There isn't a shop in America that can do the kind of job you want, for the money you are willing to pay, in the time you want it done in.

You have two choices. Buy some tools and materials and learn to do the work yourself. As you have owned the car 9 years and not done a lick of work on it, I don't see this happening any time soon.

Sell the car for whatever you can get and find some other hobby that suits your abilities better. I hear ant farms are cheap, educational and easy to manage.

 

Hmmmmm, no comment from the O.P.?

 

Hay! Greaseball, you sound like a guy that would complain if he got his balls caught in a vise!

Some xcerts fron your previous posts...

"Well, got my two new HAMB shirts in the mail about a week ago.
I don't usually buy clothes, but I was in sore need of some new threads!
I got the aviator capped skeleton riding the flatty V-8 and the HAMB 2x4 intake (which was on sale).

After checking 'em out I washed 'em in hot water ('cause they're cotton).
I wore the intake shirt once and the skeleton shirt once.
I noticed a few "loose strings" on the intake shirt (the shirt that was on sale).
Not thinking, I pulled one. Well, it stretched quite a bit and (eventually) broke.
And now my shirt's only got half a hem in it."



"So I'm curious what the minimum fee for a machine shop should be?
It seems like everywhere I've called has quoted me some ridiculous ass amount-"



"Okay, so-
What do you expect to pay at junkyards?
I'm not talking "mom and pop" places, but yards like "Pick 'N Pull" and the like,
can anyone give me a straight answer as to how much flexibility they have on price?
Am I way off base here?
I dunno, I guess this is a rant, but it pisses me off when I bring a part up and they ask me what it's from, and any legitimate/accurate response will result in "price gouging".

Does it make a difference to the scrap recycler if they are '59 ford fenders, or '80's truck fenders?

I dunno.. I like pulling my own damn parts, and when I do it I don't hack up other shit to get the parts I need. Sometimes I even put bolts back.
So it confuses and upsets me when I feel like I'm "overpaying" for parts I got myself.

So how much do you guys haggle when you go to yards?
How often do you just say "F**K it, you want to much for that," and leave the part there?"

 

Visit shops close to you and pick one out.

Determine a specific written itemized outline of the work to
be done along with a tme frame.

Get a quote outlining materials and labor.

Make sure it is agreed that changes are agreed to in writing
by both parties before they are undertaken.

Figure out a payment schedule.

Visit the shop as the work progresses so you can
keep an eye on how things are going.



Jim

 

I have only had three people work on my car (glass, headliner, and door/side panels) and one of them had my car for WEEKS and did a half-assed job. (Headliner.) So I can understand being hesitant. There seem to be more bad apples than good ones in this business and we all know people who were royally screwed over by a shop.

What I can't understand is the "there is no such thing as an accurate estimate" line. Several years ago we had a car painted at a pro shop here in Joplin. The car was in primer and we had no idea what was under there, although I knew the car had no rust. The job took a couple weeks longer than they originally said, but he did it for EXACTLY the price he gave us the first time he glanced at the car. To the penny.
I realize that was a paint job and not rebuilding a whole car, but the same principle seems to apply: think of all that could go wrong and build that into the estimate. If it goes better than expected, you're happy. If it goes worse, you eat the difference for making the mistake. Am I too old-fashioned thinking that a pro should know what they are looking at, know what it will take to reach an end point, and stand by their word once they give it?

By the way, Greaseball, Chip Foose has a very reasonable hourly rate and will take on just about any job.

 

Atomickustom,

Quote "What I can't understand is the "there is no such thing as an accurate estimate" line. Several years ago we had a car painted at a pro shop here in Joplin. The car was in primer and we had no idea what was under there, although I knew the car had no rust. The job took a couple weeks longer than they originally said, but he did it for EXACTLY the price he gave us the first time he glanced at the car. To the penny."

It is posible that he took in your car and it was properly prepaired and he screwed around for a few weeks and then just shot it and it came out real good and he made more money than he expected.. We all get lucky once and a while.

 

Hey Atomickustom, what is chip fooses rate,i have always wondered that,i run a small bodyshop,mine is 58.00 hour"when i can get it". Harvey

 

Cheap,Fast,Correct Which of the 2 do you want?Because i will tell you wont get all 3.My personal favorite is the guys that tell you they want a driver but then are disappointed that it isnt a show car when it is finished and nitpick it to death.I do mech resto/hotrod not body.But i have a body shop that i deal with and they get driver/show car thing all the time.I tell potental clients I can do pretty much anything they want done but it is by the hour.I never have a problem showing someone the shop,work in progress or talking to my clients past or present.

 

The last time a customer said my professional prices were too high...I just handed him the brush and said go for it.

I've built my share of cars and will tell anyone who complains about prices to back off, I dont need your tainted money. Customers from hell are not what we need in this business because if they know so much about it why aren't they doing the job themselves.

I was asked by a neighbor one time how much I would charge to restore his 65 Chevy Impala. I had just finished a 56 Chevy wagon and he thought I did a nice job. I gave him a ball park and he freaked out asking why so high. My answer to him? Go build a car first then come back and lets talk. Most people really have no clue and we should educate about the amount of work involved. This is a growing problem on both sides of the fence.

I've striped for hundreds of shops and thousands of car owners and can tell horror stories from both sides on the car build thing. Shops taking money and never doing the work. Customers paying a small price for a major job and over expecting. It's diabolical! I've seen cars with 200,000 invested and the paint peeling 6 months later. The shop owner ignoring pleas from the car owner. I've seen car owners get a very nice job for a reasonable price bitching out the shop to every person within 6 feet for a few minor mistakes.

That's why to those with high hopes and low funds I say this...there are plenty of low roller shops willing to do the job cheap, and there are a few high roller shops who won't do the job for any amount of coin because they are able to get higher prices without all the complaining from foodstamp minded people. The "Pros" have already been through the this phase in business and know it is not worth dealing with it.

If you are looking to have a car built, painted, upholstered, whatever, pick your poison and do it yoself. If you made it this far in life I'm sure you know what's best.

 

Ha, and I have spent a solid 3 hours building a license plate / tail light mount for my Tudor. And to think a shop would have charged a solid 200 bucks for parts and material sounds unfathonable.

IT ALWAYS TAKES LONGER. Once you work on it some, you will know.....

 

I think it is okay to be skeptical of shops.

There are a few professional hard working classic car shops out there...

I am personally totally scared by 90% of the classic car shops out there.
I have been trying to sublet to shops with my overflow for over 20 years.
Though I rarely do it anymore...

It is a rare rare thing when I am not disappointed. With the basics... like hey, you painted it the wrong color, or we agreed it was 25 hours for that part of the job after we went through every step, and now it is 50 hours.. or the gaps are so bad....
or ...... ........ just amateur ridiculous excuses, and outright lies..

It seems like bizarro world whenever I try to deal with 90% of the shops out there.

### But then there is the 10% that do what they say they are going to do, how they say they are going to do it, when they say they are going to do it.....
but that is rare...

So I understand how skeptical some people are for sure.

But shops are like people, same thing.
There are good decent ones out there, you can't let the bad ones get you down or ruin your day or hobby.

Have Fun!

 

The next stage is.... the shop that does a real nice job at a reasonable price, and deserves the props for it.....

See the owner at the car show..... Ya I did it all myself!

 

Or... you try to save the customer some money, or he insists you do something you know isn't going to work.....

He goes around telling everyone "look what a crappy job XXXXX shop did on my car".

 

This is a excellent answer. And as said before loose the attitude. Any good servive advisor or shop owner would nail you as a (asshat) in a heart beat and think twice about doing work for you. Andy

 

Just talk to them about football, weather, politics - whatever and go with your gut feel. Rule of thumb, if they try to impress you stay away. You want somebody so good they don't need to brag. forget about all those fancy contracts and legal clauses - a customer brings that shit up gets invited to leave and not return. If it is a good shop that is competant you will have to sell yourself to them, how long do you think Vern Tardel would listen if you mentioned a delay clause.

 

Never ever rush your car builder

Never take your car to a shop that's not been in business for at least 5 years and check with the BBB before leaving your car.

Never take your car to a shop that doesn't have examples of work they have done you can see and ride in.

If your car builder tells you it's not a good idea, listen up as he's done a lot more than you.

I send a detailed invoice monthly describing each task and how long it took and a list of parts purchased. Be wary of any shop that does not or will not do that.

I work slow and perfection is a must. I charge 1/3 of commercial shops because I work from home by myself, but I pick my customers they don't pick me.

 

BBB? Dane, seriously? I find the Better Business Bureau to be an old boys club (for profit) that is solely there to refer work to its association members .... in my mind the BBB doesnt carry much weight in making any consumer decisions. ... thats like saying a business isnt valid unless it has a yellow page ad.

 

I find referrals are the best source. I needed door panels and buckets re-done for a Vette I was restoring. A co-worker had a friend that had been laid off who upholstered ambulances. I called him and he quoted $125 (this was in '80). I took my seats and door panels over to him, picked the materials and pattern. He changed his quote to $95 and told me to go to breakfast, the job would be done in an hour. The painter was another referral. Strip the paint, fix the cracks and primer, $200. Paint, if I bought the paint, $300. Ahhhh, the good old days.

 

well....since I just recently spent $1000 to have a merc towed out to get washed..I would start off with "are you actually up to doing this? or am I gonna have to start all over "