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What am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by usmile4, May 8, 2012.

  1. usmile4
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 689

    usmile4
    Member

    So I'm new to painting and it is the first time I've used anything but rattle cans. I'm putting on primer on my 51 Chevy. I've read the threads like Overspray's painting tips. But I feel I'm doing something wrong.

    Problem #1: How do I paint the roof to get it on evenly?

    Problem #2: After the first coat I'm having some difficulty with successive coats in that it looks streaky. I'm overlapping and yet when it dries it has streaks.

    Question #1: I have been blocking each coat with a long board and making cross pattern. Do I need to scuff each coat before applying another coat or can I wipe it down and put on another coat?

    Any other hints and tips will be appreciated.

    Bill
     
  2. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 7,224

    19Fordy
    Member

    This is a site that you will fall in love with and learn a lot. All your questions will be answered. Joining is FREE. www.paintucation.com I have some VHS tapes on painting for sale in the classified that may help you.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  3. Would need a lot more info. Like type of paint, equipment........
     
  4. TERPU
    Joined: Jan 2, 2004
    Posts: 2,273

    TERPU
    Member

    Well, based on the limited info on your post I'll give it a shot.

    It sounds like you are painting in a dark place or where shadows exist. Also you will have to develop an ability to paint by shine not by coverage as your eye sees it. Here's what I mean by that. When you overlap a panel or sprayed line you are trying to put paint right at the point the last pass was, it'll still be shiny as should your new pass. IF you are looking slightly sideways and not directly onto the panel it'll be easy to catch. Don't trust your eyeballs for color coverage they will fail you every time and you'll have runs and dry spots. Also it doesn't take all 100PSI in the compressor and depending on what material you are using a 35-55 lb pressure is plenty normally. Keep your wrist straight and do your best to keep the gun straight at the panel you are painting. Always do a dust or tack coat and never try and get all the material on in one shot. Three successive coats is usually a minimum. Six is a more common amount for that deep dark luster after color sanding. Six may sound like alot but you start with a dust coat and work up to a full and then a light ending coat. Be patient painting takes a lifetime to master and every experience is a new one even for the most seasoned and best painter. Runs, drips, sags, dry spots, orange peel, and even tiger stripes happen to the best of them. You can do it, it just takes patience and practice. Rent or buy alot of lighting so you can see what you are doing, and the prep work before painting is the most important albeit boring part of a shiny top coat.

    In regards to the streaky top coat we need the material you are using because they all have different time frames for re-coat and it's real important. Sounds like it's dry already or your eyes are playing tricks on you and you are dry coating it. Any runs? that'll tell us if you are laying on too thick or not enough.

    Nothing is worth the effort more than a shiny paint job!


    Tim
     

  5. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,953

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Yeah, more info needed on what type of paint, both chemistry, and effect (metallic, pearl, solid?), Base clear or single stage?
    Why are you sanding in between coats?????????
    Definately NOT necessary in just about every paint available today. We used to do it with lacquer, but NOT every coat.
     
  6. on those cars i like to paint the roof first with the rest of the car covered, wait a day, then cover roof and paint the rest of the car. this will allow you to lower the car, and allow you to lean against the car while painting the roof. then jack it up high to do the rest.
    as far as the streaks it sounds like the gun is not adjusted correctly, or you are spraying to close.
     
  7. usmile4
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 689

    usmile4
    Member

    I'm putting on primer not color. I'm using Evercoat 2274 Dura Build primer. I thought I needed to block the primer between coats.
     
  8. No you build, then shoot a guide coat in a contrasting color, and then block.

    I donot know if there is a proper way to shoot the roof. I guess ideally you would have a scffold and start at on side and work directly across to the other. That said what i have alwasy done if I could not reach all the way across is put up a step ladder on each side shoot what I can reach from one ladder and them quickly go to the other side and finish up. I always shoot the roof as a separate entity.
     
  9. Abomb
    Joined: Oct 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,659

    Abomb
    Member

    Well, it's primer for one thing, it has a faster flash time than an actual top coat, so unless your really fast, or really laying it on thick, it's hard to get it done without some dry spots. Another thing is that you might be using too much air pressure, and not enough paint volume....it's really hard to tell from my side of the monitor.
     
  10. davidbistolas
    Joined: May 21, 2010
    Posts: 962

    davidbistolas
    Member

    For paint- you could get scaffolding... or a couple of ladders. usmile's got a early 50s chevy, and I have the same questions/thoughts for doing mine...
     
  11. overspray
    Joined: Jan 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,232

    overspray
    Member

    Well that is acrylic lacquer primer/surfacer. I'm guessing you are thinning it with fast lacquer thinner at the 1:1 reccomended ratio. If it's warm in Illinois that product will dry or flash off pretty fast. You can afford to be more aggressive when spraying primer which will help "hone" your technique. Thin it a little more--10-20%, or use a slower evaporating thinner or blend of fast and maybe medium, and lower the air pressure at the gun to around 30 to 40 psi (see what works best) and adjust the distance of your spray tip a little closer--maybe 4 to 6 inches above the roof and move steady and slow, adjusting your pass speed so the primer stays wet on the surface for 20 to 30 seconds after your pass. All these adjustments will need to be "dialed in" until you get a comfortable technique.

    It's a fast drying primer on a horizontal flat surface--the perfect practise platform. If you get a heavy area or run, no sweat. Let it dry and sand it smoothe.

    Now, if you are using lacquer primer, you may limit the type of topcoats/color you can successfully use. Lacquer primer will let strong solvents or thinners from paints and clears soak down into it, because it is always soluable. This may show up as shrinkage or delamination of some topcoats later on. Check your paint system to see if you can use it over lacquer primer.

    Lacquer is a good product to learn on. Keep at it, and keep asking questions. There is some wonderful info on the Kevin Teitz site.

    overspray
     
  12. HamD
    Joined: Mar 3, 2011
    Posts: 298

    HamD
    Member

    Just wait until you shoot silver!
     
  13. usmile4
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 689

    usmile4
    Member

    Thanks for all the help first off. I think I have gotten some good things to try. In order to not screw up further, should I sand down what is there already? do IO block between each coat giving it a couple of days to fully dry?

    The guy at the paint store said he would recommend I put a top coat on each panel as I finish it so moisture is not absorbed into the primer. I'm in Illinois and the past week it is raining off and on and the shop I'm working in is not heated so it is cool or hot depending on the outside temps.

    I have used the ladder technique on the roof but can't get a full pass so doing it in sections is OK to do?

    As I previewed my post I'm thinking you guys who know how to paint are probably laughing your asses off or at least shaking your heads with all my dumb questions and lack of painting skills. But thanks for the help anyway and I'm glad I can add some humor into your day!
     
  14. doing the primer in sections is fine, don't do it with the paint tho. put on three coats and, as mentioned spray a shadow coat that will seal it lightly and give you a guide to sand it. what primer are you spraying?
    no ones laughing by the way.
     
  15. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,539

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The first time I did the 48 I sprayed the primer with a little put put compressor that my father in law had. Spray primer,let it dry, block sand, repeat. I did that almost every day for three or four weeks before going to work at 3:00 in the afternoon.
     
  16. usmile4
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 689

    usmile4
    Member

    that is what I have been doing. Spray, let it dry 2 days, block, blow, wipe, repeat, repeat, etc.

    I've got a few low spots that I think I need to put some glaze on and some high spots that I can't get behind so I don't know what to do with those. This is just going to be a driver but I don't want it to look all wrinkled and dimpled.
     
  17. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,578

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    For conventional primer (not high build) the rule is, give it 2 thin wet coats, let it dry for a few days, sand dry with 100 or 120, STOP when you cut thru to the paint or metal.

    Give it 2 more thin wet coats. Sand dry with 220.

    Go over the whole car carefully, I like to hold a trouble light next to the surface to highlight flaws or low spots. Fix any glitches, spread a dab of spot putty on small flaws. Spot sand, spot prime, sand smooth, then sand the whole car once more with 400. 400 smooth is correct for most paints or used to be.

    This is all done by hand no machines. Primer is soft and cuts easy.

    It sounds like you may need to do some more body work before you get to the primer stage.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  18. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,578

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You may need to thin the primer more. Cut down the pressure as low as you can. It takes practice to get it to go on even. Do not try to put it on too thick. Primer and glazing putty is not a substitute for bodywork.

    Spray one coat, go back immediately and spray on a second. Do not build up too much primer at once or it will take forever to dry and will shrink like mad. 2 thin wet coats. Then let it dry as long as possible, at least overnight.
     
  19. overspray
    Joined: Jan 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,232

    overspray
    Member

    Of course we are laughing---because all painters come out of the womb with a Binks Model 18 in our hand. I myself sprayed my crib at 14 months, my coaster wagon at 3 years old and Dad's Olds 88 at 7 years old.

    Seriously, you are asking good questions. As far as the step ladder, you need 2 for each side (or those little 3 steppers) and hit the lumber yard for a couple 10 foot long 10 or 12 inch planks. Use the bottom or second step to make a scaffold about 12-16 inches off the floor and you should be good. Get your air line situated before you start and do a practise run thru without spraying to see if you can reach everything and cover the roof without falling off.

    Another good trick, is to find someone with some more experience, doing a similar project. Buy beer and pizza and make a new buddy. Then watch and learn. It will make sense. That's the way it was done in the day, and hot rodders still do it today. Another option is trading skills or work for some help. It's much more effective getting pointed in the right direction on the spot, while actually doing the work.

    Keep looking at info on the net. Youtube has fixed more stuff for me than I can count.

    I think you may be getting ahead of yourself on the primer, but it's a tough call from here. No matter what, it sounds like you are making headway, so take a breath and suck in some more info off the web or from a buddy before you go too much further.

    overspray
     
  20. striper
    Joined: Mar 22, 2005
    Posts: 4,498

    striper
    Member

    "I'm in Illinois and the past week it is raining off and on and the shop I'm working in is not heated so it is cool or hot depending on the outside temps."


    Just something that caught my eye. Don't rush into doing the top coat if your weather is shitty. I only have experience spraying acrylic lacquer but I do know that it is a bad idea to spray a top coat in humid or wet conditions. The paint will 'bloom'. It will get a foggy haze over it. Pick a warm day and paint in the middle of the day when the humidity is at it's lowest. Stop before the day starts to cool off.

    Pete
     
  21. usmile4
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 689

    usmile4
    Member


    I thought I had finished up all the body work as it looked and felt smooth and I even put on a guide coat, so that is why I started with the primer. But after the first coat and blocking with the guide coat, some highs and lows have appeared so I'm gong to go back to the body work stage.

    do I need to top coat with something after I'm finished with a panel in primer while waiting to get the whole car done for final paint?
     
  22. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,550

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    I think, you need to find someone in your area to drop by and give you a hand. Let them mix some material up and shoot a coat or so on so you can see firsthand how to do it. Got to be someone out there that can lend a hand. Lippy
     
  23. overspray
    Joined: Jan 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,232

    overspray
    Member

    Good point, Pete. I did get a chuckle, your "bloom" here we call a "blush". We used to be able to buy "non blush" lacquer thinner in the old days. 2 countries separated by a common language. Oh yeah, that's England.

    Lacquer will dry or skim over so fast that the evaporation of the solvent will trap humidity/moisture in the paint film, causing the foggy looking bloom or blush. A slower evaporating thinner will help to eliminate this. It isn't quite as critical in the primer. Sanding and some sunshine will fix the moisture trapped in primer.
     
  24. usmile4
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 689

    usmile4
    Member

    so if I read you right, I can prime the whole car and not worry about the moisture and having to topcoat a panel at a time and then before starting the final painting on a nice day give it a sanding and it should get rid of any moisture in the primer?
     
  25. gasheat
    Joined: Nov 7, 2005
    Posts: 714

    gasheat
    Member
    from Dallas

    After you master the steps above, move to the next step of dealing with flying insects like here in Texas.
     
  26. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    Ain't nobody that's been there, and done it that's laughin...............;)

    On tall vehicles like peek ups, I like to take the wheels off 'um, put them on blocks, get them down low and avoid any ''high wire'' action I can. Ya haven't lived 'till yer on the final pass on a acrylic enamel job with lots of metalic and clear, and you miss a step commin off the ladder/pick and land on the cowl/hood:mad::mad: Too, with the job at eye level, you get a good idea of how it's flowin', and how the metalic or flake is laying down.

    The above mentioned tips are as important at the primer stage as they are at the finish stage, as all those panels will have to be top coated, and finish won't make bad metal or prep work look any better .:eek:

    " Life ain't no Disney movie "
     
  27. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,578

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You would spot prime areas you have worked on. This will protect them until you are ready to paint. This assumes you are working indoors and not leaving it too long (months or years) and not leaving it outside. Primer is porous and will not keep off moisture and rust if it gets wet.

    Normal procedure would be to mask off the glass chrome etc, do bodywork, prime the car, sand, reprime, sand, and paint.

    If the old finish is good it is not necessary to prime the whole car. So you can skip that part.

    If you find faults that you previously missed you have to use your own judgement. It is always tempting to try and fix up something with spot putty that really needs bondo or even hammer and dolly action. In the end, it is quicker and better to go back and fix it right. Spot putty or glazing putty is only for small scratches and flaws.
     
  28. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,578

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    As far as bugs go if they get in the fresh paint it is better to leave them be. You will mess it up worse trying to pick them out. When the paint is dry you can deal with it better.
     
  29. Tin Can
    Joined: Nov 18, 2005
    Posts: 2,096

    Tin Can
    Member

    We primed my entire car and have been blocking and priming again for a couple of months before we painted it. I had the issue of stripping the primer when there were 2 of us shooting and Jeffs half would turn out nice and flow out. His trick was add a little reducer to the primer to let it flow out smoother on the panel.
     
  30. usmile4
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 689

    usmile4
    Member

    A couple of my areas are small and in places I cannot get behind with a dolly. So tonight I just got back from sanding on those and putting on a slight coat of Rage, I will sand on it tomorrow. Sure wish there was some use for filler dust as I'm sure I sand off 4x what stays on the car!

    Pimpin Paint...That is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I have the bags deflated so it is as low as it can go but I will try to ladders with the planks idea.
     

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