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Technical Welding upside down-ish

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by topher5150, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. topher5150
    Joined: Feb 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,459

    topher5150
    Member

    So I'm working on welding the top half to the bottom half of my car together. The trouble I'm running in to is that the welds aren't staying in place. I'm thinking that if I make some small welds and kind of sew it together that might work, but I'd like to get your opinion first

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  2. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,991

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I can't TIG upside down worth a crap. And MIGing upside down is hard too. Practice makes perfect.

    What system are you trying?
     
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  3. topher5150
    Joined: Feb 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,459

    topher5150
    Member

  4. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 7,774

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    WOOPs stands for Welding Out Of Position and is the usual result in my garage when I attempt it.
     

  5. topher5150
    Joined: Feb 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,459

    topher5150
    Member

    I was trying from the inside, but there is a lot in the way and kind of tight

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  6. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,683

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Show me what you're working on. Is it sheet metal, heavier gauge, what? Whatever it is, it sounds like you're running too cold or not moving fast enough.
     
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  7. topher5150
    Joined: Feb 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,459

    topher5150
    Member

    It's sheet metal, a lil on the heavier side 18-20 g.
    IMG_20200708_132732814.jpeg IMG_20200708_132838033.jpeg

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  8. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,800

    flatford39
    Member

    It might help if you cleaned the surface up a bit. Also what is holding it together why you weld???
     
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  9. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 15,052

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I recall having the same issue once but don't recall how I rectified it, may have had the wrong wire speed setting or a bad ground.
    By the way, you haven't lived until you have had a hot weld BB land in your ear:eek:.
    The sound and smell of sizzling ear hair is hard to forget!
    I have since made a pact with myself not to weld upside down anymore.


     
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  10. mohead1
    Joined: Jan 18, 2013
    Posts: 592

    mohead1
    Member

    Well first of all, you have zero prep done...need nice clean metal to make it right...not rusted over stuff...

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  11. J. A. Miller
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 1,594

    J. A. Miller
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Central NY

    One word - rotisserie.
     
  12. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,937

    Marty Strode
    Member

    When wire welding overhead, it always requires a little more wire speed. And always, the better the weld area is prepared, the better the outcome.
     
  13. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,703

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    Yes your prep is poor.
    Making the effort to position yourself in a comfortable position will help too.
     
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  14. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 1,895

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    It's all about practice and practice some more. When I took my certification, it requires a 1" test piece in overhead and a 1" test piece in vertical. I probably practiced for 120 hours in overhead alone. Of course the certification is only stick welding, TIG and MIG are a heck of a lot easier. It all comes down to practice! As mentioned your metal is very rusty and I'm sure most of your problem.
     
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  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,264

    squirrel
    Member

    Also, pretend you're in welding school, and learn and practice on something besides the car...like some scrap metal, clamped in the upside down position. Then when you've developed the technique, move on to the real thing.
     
  16. I second the faster speed. I've been welding for 30 years and tried it all! Little faster on the wire speed helps when overhead welding
     
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  17. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 1,091

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm no expert, but as has been said, you want bare metal where you're welding, and bare metal where you're making the ground connection. Also, those gaps in the unwelded portions are too wide, but presumably you have a plan for that.
     
  18. Darin Younce
    Joined: May 8, 2019
    Posts: 583

    Darin Younce

    gotta clean, need snug fit clamped well , might wanna run short beads in several areas, Iow skip around to prevent warping and try higher wire speed as suggested, perhaps some of that upper part can be welded from inside. Welding out of position is already difficult so don't increase that difficulty by welding rough and unclean material.
     
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  19. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,845

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    First stop is prep. No sense welding dirty rusty metal, 2nd, if youre outdoors and theres any sort of breeze its taking away your shielding gas, either get out of the breeze or crank up the gas
     
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  20. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,024

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Big gaps = big trouble, not clean = trouble, trying to run a bead = trouble..
    Look on U tube for welding help. Extreme amounts of info.!!
     
  21. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,827

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    Clean your metal on both sides, get the rust off. Be sure to do this on your ground as well, put ground as close to weld as possible. What size wire are you using, and is it name brand or chinese wire?
     
  22. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 5,025

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Welding up-side-down is also the hardest for me, also. But like said, clean the metal and close the gap. I find that short bursts of weld work for me. If I hang in there , it will fall out! But my brother-in-law, an expert welder, always said I weld too hot! Lol






    Bones
     
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  23. Way back when I was learning to weld it was called Overhead and if you couldn't run a good bead there you wern't going to get a job welding. That was Stick Welding, I don't even know if Mig was invented yet. And Yes, get things cleaned.
     
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  24. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 2,933

    goldmountain

  25. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 4,974

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I used to be able to stick weld overhead, but the last time I tried it was as many boogers as it was weld. That's what being out of practice will do for you. Tried a little with my flux core mig, did fair, but actually did better with a 6010 rod. Got enough weld on it it won't come loose for a while, even if it was ugly....that's what grinders are for!
     
  26. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 34,431

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Another thing to pay attention to. What are plugged into? See your welder where it says "20 amp circuit"? Do you have one? Anything less and your machine will not work right. Are you using an extension cord? If you are you lose even more oomph. Lots of factors. Prep the metal and go from there.
     
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  27. topher5150
    Joined: Feb 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,459

    topher5150
    Member

    A lot of good info thanks again for the help.
    And to recap

    -I was grinding on that damn thing all morning and it only seemed to spread it around
    -yes I know I have some horrendous gaps.
    - I've been keeping to small spots to prevent warping
    - I got the wire from a local welding supply store .023


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  28. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,937

    Marty Strode
    Member

    For the wider gaps, if possible, I would use an aluminum, brass, or copper backup strip on the back side, while welding. Anyway you do it, it's not a simple job.
     
  29. Maybe I'm not looking at that photo right but it seems to me that if you were inside the trunk space you could weld 80% of that seam in top position.
     
  30. maybe you need a few days then , huh?
    Should take about 30 mins. And Should be done before the fitting took place. but it needs de rusted, at least knock the loose stuff off
     
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