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Technical welding secrets

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sunbeam, May 13, 2020.

  1. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,703

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    Yes, it's a safety procedure that should be followed so you don't open the valve and have a lot of pressure suddenly slamming into your brass gauge. I never stand in front of the gauge when I open the valve. Some helpful information.
    https://www.dmme.virginia.gov/DMM/P...airTopics/AR-oxygen-acetyleneuseandsafety.pdf
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
    Blue One likes this.
  2. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 10,676

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta


    We always taught our welding students that it was a required practice to shut off the tanks and back of the regulator adjustment screws at the end of the day.

    It’s a safety practice that will lengthen the service life of your regulators by taking tension off of the springs and the diaphragm too.

    Especially when the regulators happen to sit for a few weeks or longer without being used.

    Backing off the regulator is important too when
    you’re changing bottles.

    If you don’t back off the regulator and then put on a new 2000 psi oxygen cylinder and crack the bottle open you’re feeding that 2000 psi quickly into the regulator and the sudden shock can rupture the bourbon tube and sometimes blow out the front of the gauge.
     
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  3. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,346

    Boneyard51
    Member

    That’ s what I was taught in school..... but I don’t do it now. I do turn the valves on slow so that I don’t slam that pressure on the gauge all at once. I do that with all valves, though, even water in my house. 33 years as a fireman , I guess.








    Bones
     
  4. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,865

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Is it OK to use an Argon/Co2 tank on it's side? I heard it was, all tanks except acetylene in fact, but I read that online..:)

    My little Mig bottle would fit better for me that way.
     
  5. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,021

    gene-koning
    Member

    As far as I know, the only tanks you can't lay on their sides are the Acetylene, and I've been a welding gas sub-dealer for 30 years.. Other then Acetylene, the other welding gasses are simple pressurized cylinders. Gene
     
    blowby likes this.
  6. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,587

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Getting slightly off topic, regular propane tanks also must be used upright (but are okay to transport on their sides). There is a version that is designed to be used on its side only, though.
    One of the local junkyards uses propane / oxygen to cut up scrap. They like it because they get old expired but still full propane tanks dropped off for free.
     
  7. I took what was known as Farm Mechanics in High School in 1959. That, and the course on typing, were two of the best decisions I ever made.
    In the typing course, I got to meet and flirt with the girls in the class, and in the Farm Mechanics class, I learned how to work a forge, work metal, and learn the tricks regarding, identifying types of steel, as well as practice, forging, hardening and tempering . We also learned stick welding and torch welding, and working part time at a welding supply store, I got all the time I wanted to practice cutting and welding, using the free gas from returns that weren't emptied.
    I used the equipment from the store to, swap the engine, transmission, and rear end from an Olds, chop, channel, as well as, shorten the box on my 34 Ford pickup.
    At the time, it also made me the guru in my car club, and allowed me to pick up some cash by doing work on their projects.
    I have a couple of excellent Miller boxes, including a Dimension 400 box, and although it took some doing to build a rotary converter to use 3 phase to power it, it was well worth the effort. I also own a Syncrowave, which is excellent for TIG work a Miller big 40, 300amp engine driven welder, which lays down 7018 like butter , and a Lincoln 255 amp MIG welder.
    My lesson regarding welding, no matter which one you start with, is to buy the best welder you can afford. It is often possible to pick up excellent used welders from welding supply centers. These can often be excellent buys, and the store will often supply training to get a person started. (at least they used to do this).
    There are normally welding courses at many of the community colleges. There is also a wealth of excellent information available on youtube. One I particularly like, is Weldingtipsandtricks.com. He puts up excellent demonstrations, and makes TIG welds that are a work of art. He also has a course of CDs, but you can watch everything on the CDs on youtube. Jody, only one of many excellent welders and teachers on youtube, and you may find a different guy that is more in line with your interests.
    Get the best helmet you can buy. The auto dimming helmets are much less expensive now than when I bought mine, but I don't ever regret buying it, it substantially improved the quality of my welding.
    If you have a welding/cutting torch, use it for some of your jobs. If you are doing general repairs on equipment, you can weld sheet metal with a torch that can't easily be welded with a TIG. Hammer welding using a torch, will help you understand how to work sheet metal.
    Bob
     
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  8. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 4,530

    atch
    Member

    When you think your Mig welds are spattering because you didn't get ALL the rust out just stop and check to make sure your gas bottle isn't empty (and that the valve is open/turned on). Sometimes we learn best from our own mistakes and those lessons tend to be remembered better.

    PS; due to the questions above, I asked at the welding store and Praxair this week and got the same answer: Acetylene is the only welding/cutting gas that can't be stored/transported on the side, immediately stood up, and used. Just reiterating/confirming what Gene and others have said. That would indicate to me that blowby's bottle could be used on its side. I would only be assuming that the regulator would work properly in the horizontal position but don't know why it wouldn't.
     
    blowby likes this.
  9. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,914

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The main reason you don’t draw off acetylene bottles on their side is they are full of charcoal and asbestic and half full of acetone by volume, has a small hole in the material. You can’t transport Acetylene in the free state, thats why the tanks are so heavy and have a dull thud to them. If you draw Acetylene while the tank is laying on it’s side you will draw some of the acetone off and you will have puddles of fire. Also if you are using a large rosebud Like this with a single stage regulator you can siphon some of the Acetone off also. In that case you will need a two stage regulator to control this problem. I welded pressure vessels for cracking towers For oil field and distillation towers for DuPont for a few years to pay my way thru college but got drafted and the Army pay for it then. C24117D8-70E5-4B8E-AB49-23E0122DB0BE.jpeg DBC74D07-5DA4-4E9F-8B0D-0F5DF3B4F57D.jpeg
     
  10. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,026

    RMONTY
    Member

    Great habit to get into. My welding teacher in High School was an old oil field welder and he beat that trick into us!
     
  11. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,816

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Got a question for the good welders! When welding together header tubes, sometimes you have to weld in between 2 tubes almost touching. How do you get the tubes welded, if you can't get your tungsten in that tight an area?
     
  12. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,804

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    Foresee the problem and weld that one before the interfering one is in place.
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  13. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,025

    Paul
    Editor

    as per acetylene bottles on their side,
    I was told but have not tested or researched it; if the bottle does lay down for whatever reason,
    it should stand vertical for a minimum of time equal to the time it was laying down,
    or as long as 24 hours before using.
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  14. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,021

    gene-koning
    Member

    I told my customers that insisted they could lay the Acetylene tanks on their side to transport them, that they had to let the tank stand upright for at least 2 hours for every 1/2 hour it laid on its side., but it would be better if they waited until the next morning. Another thing I wouldn't do (after the 1st time warning) was let someone take an Acetylene tank and put it in an enclosed area (like a car trunk or a tool box), in any position. Acetylene tanks must be transferred in an open air vehicle. Even the smallest leak in an enclosed area can create an Acetylene bomb that can easily be set off. Acetylene is some bad stuff. Gene
     
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  15. bathcollector
    Joined: Jul 8, 2006
    Posts: 262

    bathcollector
    Member

    We are a gas distributor at my work. A guy came in to work in a stationwagon with his large oxy and acetylene bottles laid down in the back. he is a bit over an hours drive back to his workshop. It was around 3 pm and a stinking hot day, the kicker was his 2 teenage daughters in the back seat riding along with the bottles ! I was not going to give him 2 new bottles to take away but my boss said it is his responsibility so had to let him go with them. I asked if he was going straight home and to at least have a window down, he said yes to going straight home, so very reluctantly gave him the bottles. I was driving home through town after 5 pm (still hot) and who should be coming out of the local takeaway but shit for brains, daughters still in the car with these 2 big bottles. Couldn't help myself but stop the car and call him a f****ing arsehole that didn't care much for the safety of his kids. He hasn't been back since but no way will he get gas if he pulls this again.
     
  16. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,181

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^^^^You can't fix stupid
     
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  17. SEAAIRE354
    Joined: Sep 7, 2015
    Posts: 190

    SEAAIRE354
    Member

    On flanges I like to have the primary tube slip in so it can be welded 360 degrees on the inside to seal and weld what you can on the outside to give it some strength. And with the collector you weld the ends of the pipes together then down the lengths a little beyond we’re the collector lands.
    Also if you use gas lenses with the screens it directs the shielding gas and allows you to stick the tungsten out further to get in tight spots. I haven’t tried them yet but the clear lenses seem to also help with seeing what your doing.



    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  18. Jethro
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 1,511

    Jethro
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The only downside that I see of laying gas bottles horizontal is safety. As a firefighter doing safety inspections, pressurized cylinders must be secured in a vertical position with safety caps on bottles that are not in use. The valves on most cylinders are brass and are easily knocked off. A horizontal cylinder under pressure will "rocket" with great force and hurt anything in its path. If the valve gets knocked off in the vertical secure position it should just vent safely.
    Regarding the acetylene in a closed space there was a van explosion in Vancouver that made the sheet metal of the van look like a peeled banana. It was a plumbing van that had one of those weeny little tanks that had a small leak . When the guy used his FOB to unlock the door it ignited the gas and blew the shit out of the van . Luckily he was 50 feet away when it blew or he would have been killed.
     
  19. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,914

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have lived in Dallas all my life.and we have had a magnesium plant fire in the 40’s then in the 60’s we had Hill & Hill Welding supply burn. We were standing on the other side of the river watching The little plumber tanks were flying all around and some the other cylinders fell and knocked the valves off and the took off like rockets and landed across the river in West Dallas and they were so cold that they had formed ice on then and around. Then in about 2009 Welders Supply in Dallas burned it was the cryogenics plant producing Acetylene. We watched it on TV. Bottles landed on the overhead bridges and closed the whole area for days because water and carbide produces Acetylene gas.. they were not permitted to rebuild because of their location .
     
  20. Brand Apart
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 678

    Brand Apart
    Member
    from Roswell GA

    Off topic of welding but this world would be a hell of a lot better if people actually followed this philosophy.
     
  21. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,914

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am 78 and learn new shit every day. Like use I gotta the Clear Pyrex Cups on my TIG
     
  22. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 4,530

    atch
    Member

    I pretty much can't go anywhere in my shop without walking past my welder. I'm pretty good about turning my gas off and can't remember the last time I left it on. However, after reading some of the posts above I put this tag on it so I HAVE to see it many times a day.

    turn off welding gas.jpg
     
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  23. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,025

    Paul
    Editor

    Just found my argon bottle on, don't remember exactly how much was in there before, it's probably down, it's been days since I used it..
    A sign posted at the shop door is a good idea.
     
    sidevalve8ba likes this.
  24. I gas weld my headers and have always been able to reach the joints.
     

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