Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical welding secrets

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sunbeam, May 13, 2020.

  1. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,843

    sunbeam
    Member

    When it comes to welding and fabing this book helped me more than any I ever picked up. It is worth your time welding secrets by Hal Wilson. Explains confined expansion and notch principal [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  2. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 4,701

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    Nobody is to old to learn or listen to another perspective.
     
  3. H380
    Joined: Sep 20, 2015
    Posts: 433

    H380
    Member
    from Louisiana

    Practice time under the hood
     
    Just Gary likes this.
  4. Jethro
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 1,482

    Jethro
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I know you need time under the hood but watching someone who knows what they're doing is priceless!. I took a night school TIG course at the local trade school and thought I was doing pretty good , not quite a row of nickels but I was getting nickel , nickel , nickel ,penny , dime ,nickel , quarter ,nickel , birdshit , dime ....you know beginners row of change. The instructor came over to look at what I was doing and started to run a row of perfectly spaced exactly the same size nickels and as he is doing it he looks up at me and tells me what I was doing wrong all the time he was still stacking nickels without looking at what he was doing......showoff bastard!
     
    Phoenix24, brEad, Driver50x and 13 others like this.
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 949

    X-cpe

    I "learned" gas welding from a welder in the Army. In college I had to take a 1 hr. welding class. When the instructor started with the "if it looks like this, here's why" part, I got a whole lot better in a hurry.
     
    cfmvw, j-jock, Chavezk21 and 3 others like this.
  6. mickeyc
    Joined: Jul 8, 2008
    Posts: 1,047

    mickeyc
    Member

    I have been around welding and welders for 50 years.
    Some of the best in the business from the gulf coast
    oil fields and the nuclear power industries. Also worked at the Martin Marrieta and Stennis Space centers. That
    being what it is, I have never heard the terms confined
    expansion or the notch principal. I have no idea what those terms refer to?
     
    Fitty Toomuch likes this.
  7. hotrodjack33
    Joined: Aug 19, 2019
    Posts: 986

    hotrodjack33
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thank God for wire-feed MIG welders. Stick welding, at least for me, is exactly what the name implies...I can stick my welding rod to anything and everything...I suck at it.
    I first learned to weld with torches/gas welding. Chopped my first top ('48 Ford PU) with torches and coat hangers:eek:
     
  8. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 2,875

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    I learned to gas weld and arc weld in Jr. High School metal class. Good teacher! Mr. Miller.
    I welded with gas, arc and mig, off and on over the years.
    Now, I won't be able to weld any more, possibly soon, according to my Doctor.
     
    cfmvw likes this.
  9. I started arc welding in HS and soon was doing everyone's welding for them. Onto automotive college, we had a class on arc and gas welding. I was soon trading weld samples that we had to hand in for pitchers of beer in a local bar. I have a Lincoln 225 welder that I bought in 1983 for stock car work, that saw a lot of action. The only thing that changed since is that my go-to stick was the 6013 and recently discovered 7018 rod. And I got a self-darkening helmet.
     
    bchctybob and Algoma56 like this.
  10. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,843

    sunbeam
    Member

    Confined expansion is when you heat something up it expanse in all directions if you limit that expansion in one direction is will grow where it can. When it cools it will shrink in all directions. If you put a leight of rod in a vice a and heat it red hot where it looses it's strength when it cools it will fall out. The same thing happens when you weld . When you start the weld is hot the farther you go the weld cools behind you getting strong not letting the weld to expand but it will shrink pulling the metal. As to the notch metal tends to beak where there is a change in thickness. It you weld across the tension side of piece and it breaks it will be next to the weld. All this is covered in the book and more. Pay attrition to page 34.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  11. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,046

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's what I've been saying in all the other threads on welding. Constant speed and concentrate on a constant repetitive motion. Your muscles will develop a memory for this and you will be able to do the same thing as the instructor. Use the correct heat, most of the people who only weld once in a while try to weld with the amp setting too cold.
     
    cfmvw likes this.
  12. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,046

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If your welding rod is sticking, turn your heat up and move faster
     
    Driver50x, hotrodjack33 and bobss396 like this.
  13. donsz
    Joined: Nov 23, 2010
    Posts: 205

    donsz
    Member

    I downloaded the PDF of the book. I did a quick run through just to see what it was about. Right away I found a couple of instructions that cleared up why I sometimes run into problems with certain welds. Great information on a variety of topics. Thanks Sunbeam for the heads up and Time Traveler for the download url.
    don
     
  14. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 3,826

    indyjps
    Member

    Ive been thru mig production welding training and certification 4 times now at my job, in the event I need to go weld production. Learned a lot, got a lot better etc.

    What cracks me up, to mig weld sheetmetal you pretty much have to take every good mig welding practice and throw it out the window.

    At least I know I'm doing it wrong.
     
  15. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,012

    Boneyard51
    Member

    I started welding back in about 1963. Took “ VoAg” in school and burned as much rod as possible. Also did a bunch of gas welding with gas rod. Now I use baling wire. My BIL, a product of Tulsa Welding School and probably the best welder in the world, says I’m a “ pertty good “ welder! That’s a compliment, coming from him! I too, use 6013, most of the time, it’s an “ all purpose” rod. My BIL says it’s junk Rod and laughs at it. He carries about six different rods with him, some I can’t even weld with! But with 6013 I can get a beautiful bead, that is strong enough for anything I do. And I don’t have to chip it much, it usually does it itself. I have a Miller thunderbolt A/c in my shop, for quick stuff and a Miller Bobcat A/C D/C on a trailer for serious welds. A Lincoln cracker box and a Lincoln weld and power on a trailer at the ranch. Over the years I have done a lot of welding. My rod of choice for up hill is 7018. My BIL showed me how to do that. Before, I used 6013 downhill, most of the time. Now I choose depending one, depending on the strength needed. I have a little Miller 110 mig welder for light duty stuff. Never got into TIG, but there alway tomorrow! It’s fun to weld, if you have the right stuff and a good teacher.










    Bones
     
  16. 48ford
    Joined: Dec 15, 2001
    Posts: 431

    48ford
    Member

    Not hi jacking, but story time
    Boys used to watch me weld( I was a pipe fitter)
    Oldest boy became a certified welder, now I can’t even find the crack lol!
    He stopped by (to see his mom) and said that’s a nice bead, but you MISSED the crack!
    Last few times he helped me ,he told me,don’t even tack it together, your messing up my welds!
     
    slack, Budget36, Mark Hinds and 2 others like this.
  17. b-body-bob
    Joined: Apr 23, 2011
    Posts: 414

    b-body-bob
    Member

    I bought a car that needed some sheetmetal welding. I've got a BIL and an uncle IL who are both pro welders. They flat refused to help me out.
     
    Boneyard51 and indyjps like this.
  18. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,104

    The37Kid
    Member


    TOTAL opposite for me, I could stick weld a ship and have the welds look like a TIG weld, MIG is a bunch of shit I have to grid.

    Bob
     
    tubman and Boneyard51 like this.
  19. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 1,199

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    I started working in a frame and suspension shop at 15. My boss was a master craftsman at frame repair and welding.

    He first taught me oxy welding with coat hangers and scrap metal. Once I could do decent we moved onto stick, later on to mig.

    He passed a few yrs back and I'm fortunate he taught me alot. Welding, frame repair, suspension building etc. I really miss him.

    My current boss (his son) is one of the best tig welders I've ever seen bar none. Now that I've bought a tig my next quest is to get him to teach me tig!

    Sad part is no one seems interested in learning any of these skills I've learned thru the years from me. Hate to think I won't be able to pass on some I've learned.
     
    Hotdoggin DaddyO and Boneyard51 like this.
  20. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,843

    sunbeam
    Member

    The first edition was titled where not to weld.
     
  21. Also when your striking your arc, don't tap the rod on the steel. Scratch it across the metal. Makes all the difference in the world.
     
  22. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 3,826

    indyjps
    Member

    I can see that, they weld all day, dont wanna come home to weld.
    Welding is just 1 part of bodywork, all the cutting, fitting, grinding would suck if its not your car or your not getting paid for it... well.... it still sucks hot rodders just like to punish ourselves

    If you had all the panels fit and tacked and asked them just to weld, you may have better luck.
     
  23. Automotive sheet metal work is a totally different animal than most "pro welders" deal with.
     
    Hutkikz, indyjps, john worden and 4 others like this.
  24. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 5,921

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    My secret is to NOT let anybody see my welds....
     
    Aaron65, Just Gary, alanp561 and 9 others like this.
  25. woodsnwater
    Joined: Apr 4, 2016
    Posts: 373

    woodsnwater
    Member
    from North Al.

    Great book, thanks.
     
  26. b-body-bob
    Joined: Apr 23, 2011
    Posts: 414

    b-body-bob
    Member

    Maybe but it seemed more like they knew they couldn't do it to me. They wouldn't even talk to me about it. I figured it out on my own, but for sure I can't weld like they can.
     
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  27. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,012

    Boneyard51
    Member

    K 13, hit the nail on the head! Those pro welder, pipeline and such, weld on metal 1/2 inch and thicker. They don’t want to look bad trying to weld sheet metal. It’s real hard to weld sheet metal with a stick welder and most welders don’t have that small of rod. Gas weld, mig weld Tig weld works better for sheet metal.






    Bones
     
    alanp561, b-body-bob and lostone like this.
  28. I had a similar learning experience. While still in school in the 50s, I worked part time at a Welders Supply, and had unlimited access to both torch and stick welders. I also took a course in farm mechanics, which primarily involved forging and welding, which gave me the basic skills. The other person I learned a lot from, was my uncle, who was so damn good, he could weld better with a hangover than most people could on their best day.
    For the standard stuff, I also use 6013, and 6011 when I wanted more penetration. I use 7018 for repairing machinery, and find that the welder can make a big difference. I have a Miller Sincrowave 180SD for Stick and TIG, as well as a Miller Big 40, and a Dimension 400. I also love my old Lincoln 255 MIG welder.
    I love learning from other people's experience, and there is a goto guy I watch on youtube, called weldingtipsandtricks. He has a large number of instructional videos, and they are all excellent. I have watched a lot of other good youtube videos on welding, but his are the ones I have watched the most.
    The best single thing I have done to improve my welding, was the auto darkening helmet I bought 20 years ago. When you are an old guy like myself, I need all the light and all the little tricks that can improve the outcome.
    Other than repairs, I have not been doing much welding lately.
    Bob
     
    kasselyn29, alanp561 and Boneyard51 like this.
  29. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,012

    Boneyard51
    Member

    That’s on my list, that auto darkening helmet. I hope it helps me, now I weld for a while before I can “ focus” on the weld! Sometimes I stray off course and have to “ weld” back! Lol.
    Right now my skills are sufficient for me. But.... I am fixing to start on modifying a trailer. And there is a few up-side down and horizontal welds coming up.... might call my BIL and offer him a beer. Luckily after my BIL graduated from the welding school and spent time on various jobs, he has enticed at least 15 guys to become welders. Most are friends of mine. So I know I can grab at least one of them! Lol






    Bones
     
    alanp561 and j-jock like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.