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Technical Weird grinding noise???

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by VooDu52, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,323

    jaracer
    Member

    Is there any vibration associated with the grinding noise? Can you make the car make the noise with the car setting still by playing with engine rpm?
     
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  2. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,822

    sdluck
    Member

    Axel bearings?
     
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  3. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,671

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Please UN-Delete the Ebrake.
     
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  4. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,216

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've had a rattly one but it was as if it was the whole thing (!), not the cable in the tube. I can't imagine it is this in this case as it's most obvious when driving along, or it was with mine! Might be worth crabbing hold of the shifter when the noise starts (not to shift gears!) and possibly add some gentle side to side tension to see if that changes to noise. Worth checking that the shifter mechanism isn't touching anything at any time throughout the entire travel - the Lokar shifter isn't the daintiest thing and requires some space.

    Chris
     
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  5.  
  6. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 397

    Glenn Thoreson
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Wyoming

    Did your mechanic CAREFULLY inspect the outer rear axle bearings? That particular rear end didn't seem to have a very long life on those bearings and it would sound pretty much like what you describe. Be careful where you buy these bearings these days. I just bought a set of Timken bearings from NAPA and discovered they were made in China. I returned them and bought a set from Rock Auto that were made in the USA. Same bearings, different supplier. Now that's sad........
     
  7. redo32
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,890

    redo32
    Member

    Probably doesn't apply here, but the wife bought new car, in the second week it developed a strange buzzy rattle. When I was driving it sounded like it was coming from behind the radio or glovebox. the wife swore it was coming from the driver's door. We took it in for some missed predelivery cleanup and asked them to find the rattle. It was the garage door opener on the sunvisor. At certain speed the battery would buzz in the case. Didn't do it in the old car.
     
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  8. VooDu52
    Joined: Oct 12, 2021
    Posts: 21

    VooDu52

    Yes the noise can be recreated on a hoist. Problem is trying to locate it as it seems to travel through the whole drivelive and floorpan of the car.
     
    Deuces likes this.
  9. VooDu52
    Joined: Oct 12, 2021
    Posts: 21

    VooDu52

    Yes, when we did the rear we replaced them as well. Yeah, i noticed timkin has gone over seas lately. Very sad
     
  10. VooDu52
    Joined: Oct 12, 2021
    Posts: 21

    VooDu52

    yes there is a vibe associated with it, it can be felt in the floor pans and all the way up through the shifter. And no, car has to be rolling around 50 mph on the ground or in the air to be able to induce the noise. Doesnt seem related to engine rpm.
     
  11. VooDu52
    Joined: Oct 12, 2021
    Posts: 21

    VooDu52

    Firstinsteele, thanks for chiming in with those words of wisdom. Glad you took time out of your day to help spitball some possibilities with the group here. But i think the others have more to offer than you do, so feel free to move along and enjoy your day.
     
  12. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,640

    gene-koning
    Member

    If the noise/vibration is not rpm related, that pretty well eliminates a broken/cracked flywheel. That would be more rpm related. You would feel it through each trans shift at a specific rpm range. It also usually eliminates anything exhaust related

    When you recreate the vibration in the air, is the rear axle supported (holding the car's weight), or is it hanging free? If its hanging free, that often eliminates anything chassis/suspension /drive line angle related.

    A speed related vibration is usually related to a balance issue, tires, wheels, driveshaft, or rear drums. An out of round tire, wheel, or drum could also cause the problem. As unfortunate as it is, you can no longer assume that new parts are good parts.

    I picked up a vibration at about 50 mph on my coupe this last summer, the new tires that were installed last year got out of balance. All we can figure was one of the wheel weights must have slipped. When the tires were 1st installed, the car was glass smooth, after 6 months or so, it got a minor vibration. The vibration got slightly worse, so I had the balance rechecked before we went on a long road trip. The car rides glass smooth again.

    A vibration through the floor pan and up through the seat is usually from the rear, you seldom feel those through the steering wheel. A vibration through the steering wheel is usually from the front, it may or may not be felt though the rest of the car. Gene
     
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  13. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 451

    SS327

    Is the floor pan touching any part of the rear suspension or driveline? Do you have any pictures of the underside of the car?
     
  14. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,512

    clem
    Member

    …….loose bolt somewhere…….?

    welcome to the HAMB…….with answers like that you will fit in here quite well……..:D
    .
     
  15. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,911

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    check the balance on the driveshaft? As you state it was sourced from speedway, I wonder if it was slightly tweeked
    in shipment, or a balance weight lost. This is not a Speedway bash, but shipping these days is somewhat fit or miss.
     
  16. garyf
    Joined: Aug 11, 2006
    Posts: 247

    garyf
    Member

    Question. Are you asking these repair shops to zero in on your problem or just telling them to rebuild what you think the problem is ?
     
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  17. stanlow69
    Joined: Feb 21, 2010
    Posts: 5,947

    stanlow69
    Member

    Put the car on a hoist. Recreate the noise. Get a piece of solid round rod and start touching all the components of the car which the noise might be coming from. You will be able to isolate the problem a lot better. Did this with a bad transmission mount. A $7 dollar piece 3 days later after a 400 dollar repair on a Sunday 200 miles from home. The grinding was a bit worse. But I made it home with it still grinding.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  18. A wood dowel also works. Recruit a helper if possible, 2 heads are better than 1.
     
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  19. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 397

    Glenn Thoreson
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Wyoming

    I have had a lot of problems with out of balance drive shafts and flywheel/clutch assemblies. Oddly enough they all did the same thing you describe. Same speed, etc. Right now I have two flatheads with this problem. Since you don't have a standard transmission that pretty much narrows it down to the drive shaft, from your description. If I were me I would take the shaft to a drive line shop and have them check the balance and straightness.. I had a really bad problem with one shaft on a Dodge van due to an out of balance shaft and out of phase assembly. The first thing they asked me was "Where did you get the U joints? Was it NAPA?" That gave me a clue right away. A drive line vibration can cause noises that are almost impossible to diagnose.
     
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  20. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,848

    greybeard360
    Member

    Secret word of the day..... stethoscope.

    They are cheap. You can get one at any auto supply.
     
  21. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 2,205

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Here is what I'm thinking. You may be looking in the wrong places for the noise. You said it "only occurs at a certain speed". If it was rpm related, it most likely would occur at that rpm in the lower gears/lower speeds as well. But it only occurs when the wheels are at a certain speed, and not a certain rpm. Not impossible, but maybe not likely. I'm wondering if it couldn't be a bad wheel bearing (front/rear). Many times a wheel bearing noise is only heard when at speed. I would put your car up on some good jack stands....... outside with lots of room in front. Then start the car and run it thru the gears while off the ground. Have someone walk around the car and try to pinpoint the noise. A two post lift would also work well. When elevated, if you get no noise, I would look at the front bearings.
     
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  22. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,395

    sunbeam
    Member

    This is kind of far out there but you might look at drive shaft slip yoke ingaugement 3/4 to One inch from being all the way in is about right
     
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  23. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,819

    Black Panther
    Member
    from SoCal

    While you have it on a lift..disconnect and remove the driveshaft. That will eliminate the driveshaft and rearend from the equation. See if it still makes the noise then. How about removing the drive belts off the accessories off the front of the motor? Remove them too. But do one area at a time so you exclude a couple things from your test. Do the driveshaft first..if it still makes the noise..put it back in and do the belts.
     
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  24. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,323

    jaracer
    Member

    If it is high frequency, my guess would be driveline related. The fact that it only happens in a "float" condition make me think it may be related to driveline angle. Have you checked the angles?
     
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  25. D722027F-4A09-4D88-9B8E-6F8C85C92B3B.png 99645CE0-5181-4C65-A4CB-25475D4599B3.png


    chassis ear is a great tool, used it many many times working automotive to pinpoint weird noises , vibrations and issues.

    I’ve had it where you, and 3 other mechanics swear it’s the right rear where the noise is coming from only to find out it’s from the transmission !!

    or left front suspension amd it’s a right lower ball joint but the noise for whatever reason is transferring down the line and being audible someplace else.
     
  26. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,582

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Last night I remembered something else. How are the spot welds at the floorpan? I had a noise that I could not track. Turned out 2/3's of the spot welds broke loose between trunk and interior behind the rear seat.
     
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  27. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,848

    greybeard360
    Member

    He is running it on a lift and can hear it. Takes front suspension out of the equation.
     
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  28. Yeah, I went through the same thing. Called around, tried to find US-made bearings, was assured that the Timkens one supplier had were US-made, so ordered them. I did a bit better than you, mine showed up and were Japanese SKF bearings in a Timken box....

    Better than Chinese I suppose....
     
  29. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,193

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Japanese bearings will be some of the best quality you will ever find.
    No problem there.
     
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  30. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 2,205

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    You said the noise is there when you put it on a lift. I assume you had it in drive at the time. So did it make the noise in all gears or just high? What you need to do is eliminate components and repeat the test. Remove one rear wheel, then the other. Remove the driveshaft but get a plug to seal it. Does it do it if you run it at speed (55) in second gear as well as high gear? As others have suggested, using a wooden dowel rod pressed against that little thingy on your ear often helps locate a problem. The thing that sticks in my mind is that you have to reach a certain wheel speed before the noise starts. Your trans output shaft ,driveshaft speed, your rear end, and your tires are the only things that have a relationship thats common when the noise starts. You have inspected the trans, so I'd look at the rear......especially the wheel bearings.
     
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