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Technical Weird CAE Quickchange

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by craigibc, Apr 5, 2015.

  1. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    I purchased a CAE lower shaft off ebay a few weeks ago and when I got it in the mail and it was not the standard size of a champ quickchange lower shaft. I messaged the guy that I bought it from and I negotiated a deal and purchased this weird CAE quickchange that Dick Spardo posted last year before he got sick.

    Hoping with some more details you guys can help make sense out of it.

    Photos to come!
     
  2. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    Here are some photos. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428282384.113830.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428282410.343979.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428282428.540205.jpg
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  3. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

  4. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    From looking at it closely it does appear this might be a pre-production model. Looks like some rough original casting and machining. The rear cover you see I pulled off a champ size quickchange. Stock ford axle tubes will bolt right onto this and it does appear the bearings, size of the upper pinion and lower shaft all appear to be the diameter of a champ instead of a V8. The width of this quick change is 7" inches which is 2" wider than a champ quickchange. When I purchased it all the bearings and seals were all removed before I got it so alot of the history is lost from when Dick had it.
     

  5. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    Lower shaft! ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428283106.561748.jpg
     
  6. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,071

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Here is all I can contribute and its just from the pics..The ring and pinion will not be early Ford car or 3/4 truck as per typical V8/Champ QC as the pinion is not centered in the case and the lower shaft does not reside as low in case as others...This would take a hypoid [sic] gear set like 9" Ford etc..I think the QC that Speedway Engineering sells is similar........
     
  7. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    I agreed that it is similar to the Speedway piece. I called them the other day and they confirmed there quickchange is a 8" like that would be in a older corvette. There quickchange is not offset like this one.
    Speedway.jpg
     
  8. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 546

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    wow,I thought I'd seen every QC possible,but this is new to me! Notice how the hole for the pinion gear is NOT centered on the ring gear opening,this tells me this is for a newer design ring and pinionI had heard rumors once of a QC being made to use the ring and pinion from a 9 inch ford?When you said ford housings would bolt up did you mean the 3/4 ton housings like on a champ rear or passenger housings like the V8 QC?If its the smaller pass. housings,I suspect a modern style r&p[like 9 inch]I'll do some research in some old catalogs and see what I can find P>S> seb beat me by a few min.
     
  9. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,799

    Pewsplace
    Member

    I have never seen or heard of the unit shown. Not sure how it works or with what gears. QCE on here may know something about this one. I suspect they were made to bolt up to the early Ford 10 bolt housings like a 40 Ford. It certainly is worth researching.
     
  10. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    Pew,

    Any idea why they added the extra 2" to one side?
     
  11. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,071

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    My thought is because of large diameter of pinion gear, as in Ford 9". If I looked at the pic right the ring gear would be on the 2" side..
     
  12. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 11,000

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    I'll hazard a guess that it had something to do with the type of bells available (mostly truck stuff where one side was longer than the other) and any offset in the pinion. I suspect they were just trying to even things up. Gary
     
  13. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,781

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    A lot of good detectives on the HAMB. I had just started to correspond with Dick about this rear end when he got sick. I was afraid that it was going to be lost. Glad to see that it resurfaced and we might find out more about it.

    From the pictures, I don't think a 9" ring gear can fit in that case. Look's like 11 1/2" - 3 1/2" = 8".
    What are the diameters and spline counts on the lower shaft? If the change gear end is 10 spline, the distance between the lower shaft and pinion should be 3 1/2" which would seem likely as the standard CAE Champ cover fits.
    The next thing is to find out what pinion shaft would have the same splines as the lower shaft. It wouldn't have to be the same, but generally QCs were made so the change gears could be flipped. I don't know of any 10 spline pinions other than the Timken (Ford 3/4 ton truck and others), but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
    As others have said, the offset in the case is likely to be for fitting a differential in with a larger diameter pinion.
    My guess would be either 8" Ford or GM 10 or 12 Bolt.
    As to the lower case 'cae' logo. I would hazard a guess that either this was on the drawing board when Jim Culbert sold out to Curt Waters or shortly afterward. Not likely that Culbert would have changed it, but Waters was casting the CAE patterns with the ARC (Automotive Racing Components) logo.
    But then, maybe Jim was going to reestablish his business with the new style logo after Waters screwed him. (Allegedly screwed him)
    The beat goes on.
     
  14. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    Here are a few photos of the lower shaft. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428338744.888815.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428338763.481134.jpg
     
  15. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    Here is a standard banjo rear end ring gear. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428338848.114256.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428338871.162768.jpg
     
  16. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    Here is a photo of the pinion both the upper and lower shaft are 10 spline. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428340249.250489.jpg
     
  17. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,781

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    That pinion shaft is the best clue yet. I don't know who uses a pinion like that, but when you find out, I'll bet we can figure out how to make that a working Quick Change.
    Are you holding out any other info from us?;)
    Spline count and diameter on pinion shaft?
     
  18. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,781

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    Lookie what I found!
    c5 corvette.jpg
    C5 Corvette
     
  19. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 15,188

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    RUN---I hear the traditional police coming!!!!!!!!
     
  20. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,071

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    C5 came out in 97'..I only know that cause I looked it up!! 97' or later be about right for the casting?
     
  21. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,781

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    Seb,
    Had to look it up, eh?
    I didn't even know they had #s. My Corvette knowledge is 'Solid axle or IRS'.
    The reference I found was talking 2010. I stole the picture and C5 info from the Summit catalog.
    If the QC in question was designed around that ring and pinion, 'cae' might stand for something completely different. Jim Culbert died in 2004.
    Inquiring minds want to know!
     
  22. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,799

    Pewsplace
    Member

    I can't sleep at nights! Lets see who has the answer. Someone in LA/San Diego must know about this case.
     
  23. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    Do you think that casting is from the 90's by looking at it?
     
  24. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    I met a guy down in San Diego a few months go that worked at CAE and then worked at ARC for Curt Waters. I am trying to setup a meeting with him and see if he has ever seen it. My guess is that this is something that Jim did after the demise of CAE like he did with the TGO heads. I have done like 1000 searches on CAE and can find nothing named that on the interwebs beside Culbert Automotive.

    I do not have the pinion it was removed and sold before I got it but I think you already nailed it and know what it is. Why the corvette ring and pinion? What is the thinking or rational behind it? What does it office that the stock V8 ring and pinion does not? Extra HP?

    I would also assume this quickchange was the brainchild of the SuperMax at Speedway. Does anyone have a contact at Speedway? I would guess they can give us the history since I think this baby is where it all began and would love to know if that is the case.
     
    deuce354 likes this.
  25. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,799

    Pewsplace
    Member

    I know Ken and see him often. I will try to have him look at this thread. Frank, the founder's son also works at Speedway. They have helped me a lot in the past.
     
  26. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    that would be great if he could provide any insight!
     
  27. 19Ardun46
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 29

    19Ardun46
    Member

    I am the person who originally found this QC unit, and sold it to Dick Spadaro. It belonged to a friend of mine, who just passed away about a year ago, and he had it in his possession for at least 40 years.
    Unfortunately he never had the time to tell me the story about how he acquired it. Hopefully this is not one of those stories that is "Lost to Time"
     
  28. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,071

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Wow, in his possession for forty years! That puts it back to at least 1975! [yeah, simple math]..Puts a new light on what gears were being used [oh another brilliant deduction!] so more sleuthing...Think Culbert would have had the gears made special? Would have been big $$ even back then..
     
  29. craigibc
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 194

    craigibc
    Member

    How did you get it? Did he tell you to get rid of some of his stuff for him? Was he originally from the West Coast? Maybe a crew member for Culbert? What did he do for a living? Did he have any other quickchange stuff that might give us some clues into the history?
     
  30. 19Ardun46
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 29

    19Ardun46
    Member

    He was a life-long friend, and a very talented machinist, who was very much into Bonneville, and sprint car racing. A friend of mine, and myself, we purchased his complete estate shortly after his death, and this QC was part of the purchase. He was stationed at El Centro in the fifties, and I believe that probably was the first time he met Jim Culbert.

    He built a CAE sprint car in his basement, and then had to disassemble it to get it out of the house, one piece at a time. I bought his Sprint Car about 8 years ago, and have it in line to be restored when other projects get finished. He was a life long Ford fanatic, and he put a Boss 351C in his sprinter, ran the car one night, and parked it for about 40 years.
     

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