Register now to get rid of these ads!

History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jimi'shemi291, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 13,237

    swi66
    Member

    [​IMG]

    1907 American Juvenile!
     
  2. davesville
    Joined: Dec 13, 2006
    Posts: 364

    davesville
    Member

    jimi this is such a fascinating thread .it just gets better with time .truely extinc cars may not pop up on the internet but the families of the manufacturer may know the story and not subscribe to the h.a.m.b or other vintage car sites.after all the information from the internet that we rely on has to come from a source.at some stage somebody will track down the information before its too late to pursue
     
  3. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Davesville wrote: "jimi this is such a fascinating thread .it just gets better with time .truly extinc cars may not pop up on the internet but the families of the manufacturer may know the story and not subscribe to the h.a.m.b or other vintage car sites.after all the information from the internet that we rely on has to come from a source.at some stage somebody will track down the information before its too late to pursue."

    Jimi: Thanks, Dave, for the encouraging words! I think all the regulars on this thread share my feelings, and we enjoy HEARING that we've been doing something that lots of people not only enjoy ('cause auto history IS entertaining!) but can use to increase their knowledge and/or insight from (I surely have!). I can't imagine anyplace else than the HAMB forum where such a keen ongoing exchange could happen, and we always thank Ryan Chochran and all the hard-working forum gang for keeping us around! Performance, after all, is ALWAYS an interwoven theme within this thread. Though we haven't exactly sought to create a literary or research resource here, using the thread-search function CAN make it work fairly well that way, too!

    Heck, I didn't know where this would go when, just last September, I basically just reawakened a question asked previously on the HAMB. BUT, the theme has sort of taken on a life of its own, occasionally broadening or digressing out into topics related to the rarity or absence of cars and trucks, as well as the auto industry as it has related to and reflected the economy, culture and very lives of people -- worldwide. So, we've explored steam, gas and electric cars, flying cars, amphibious cars, cyclecars, pedal cars, one-, two-, three-, four-, six- and eight-wheeled cars. And we've explored one-offs of every ilk, from experimentals, to show cars, to home-built cars that could barely move under their own power. Sometimes, it's been pretty hilarious, actually.

    I've said before that I have enjoyed the stories of the PEOPLE behind the autos and industry about as much as I've enjoyed the search for elusive marques! Many lay people think that it's basically all about Henry Ford; as "interesting" and influential as Ford was, there were a TON of other interesting characters (good and bad) in the early days of the automobile! Automobilia is just as much about the scoundrels and eccentrics as it is about geniuses of engineering and business. There have been thousands of successes (of varying duration), failures, tragedies and near-tragedies. For very Billy Durant and Walter Chrysler, there were a score of Sam Pandolfos, Charles B. Kings, Preston Tuckers, Ransom Olds, Alanson Brushes and Harry Jewetts. For my money, I think we've just scratched the surface. We haven't even touched on the likes of kooky, crafty (and long-lived Ben Gregory) yet!

    But the CORE theme of the thread has remained the same and, indeed, we've turned over a lot of rocks on the way to finding a shred of info, a sketch, a fuzzy photo or even just a personal anecdote or recollection about some obscure, virtually forgotten automobile! In SOME cases, we FOUND a car we had thought was extinct (Geronimo, Martin Wasp and Luverne are fair examples that come to mind), while the absence of clues in some other cases seems to point to actual EXTINCTION of a car known to have been produced (Barbarino, Benson and the earliest generation of the Heine Velox would be examples there).

    Come to think of it, we are nearing 100,000 views on this thread. MAYBE it's time we come up with a list at least trying to summarize what we've nailed down -- meaning, truly extinct cars & trucks, as well as nearly extinct (think Dixie flyer; two in pieces, Australia & Iceland!), plus sole ("unique") survivors and "handful" survivors!!!

    If anyone wants to HELP me comb through the 150-plus pages of this thread, PLEASE DON'T POST YOUR LIST ON THIS THREAD; JUST SEND IT VIA A P.M. & I'LL COMPILE A MORE OR LESS COMPREHENSIVE LIST BY THE TIME WE HIT 100,000 VIEWS ON THIS THREAD, OKAY? In summarizing, I think we'd want to note:

    NAME of the make,
    WHERE produced,
    YEARS produced,
    WHO built the car/truck,
    NUMBER in existence today,
    and any pertinent DETAILS (e.g., condition).
     
  4. 1906 Cadillac Model K Roadster Tulip Bodied

    Not Many of these around.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    <SMALL>This all original Model K tulip-bodied runabout is owned (2003) by Dick Shappy of RI;
    its original Purple Lake color appears to have faded and has turned to fudge brown</SMALL>
    <SMALL>[ Photos: © 2003 and courtesy of Mr. Shappy ]</SMALL>

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    <SMALL>More Model K runabout survivors</SMALL>
     
  5. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 13,237

    swi66
    Member

    [​IMG]

    1982 Cumberford Martinique
    [​IMG]

    Supposedly only 2 made, one known to still exist, and yes, the car has wooden fenders.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    The Luxurious and pricey Biddle was a well-made "assembled" car by Biddle Motor Car Co. of Philadelphia from 1916 to 1923. Though expensive (in the middle $3-4,000 range), Biddle used understated, level-headed but sometimes almost poetic advertising to sell the public on the cars' quality and value -- meaning, you get what you pay for. This may have helped influence Ned Jordan's now-famous approach to buyer's personal and professional aspirations and self-image -- though Jordan's work was mostly post-Biddle. During a respectable run of around eight years, Biddles offer a solid Buda four of nearly 50 horses and, later, proven Deusenberg motors. Styling was daringly European for the time and dual, side-mounted spare wires were a feature on several models. Lighter models were absent the de rigueur running boards of car of the era.

    I found the following analytical quote from a good Wikipedia writer very telling, so I beg to include it here:

    " Biddle was one of more than 2,000 car makers, located all over the USA in the first quarter of the twentieth century, who failed to survive the intensifying pressures of mass-production and national distribution in the late teens and the intense competition imposed by massive corporate consolidations in the early 1920s."

    Shoot. Now THAT was well stated! One of the best, BRIEF analyses I have seen about the demise of so many early U.S. car makes.

    [​IMG]
    1915 (sic) Biddle Victoria touring, with sincere thanks to the Boyertown Museum of Historic Vehicles in Pennsylvania. Photo by Bruno Costers and uploaded to Webshots by Bruno. (American Cars @ Salvage Junk Yards rides.webshots.com/album/562281999bMJNcP). Site sponsored by American Greetings
     
  7. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    I'm not sure everybody can view the nice Biddle pic, so at
    least here's a '23 Biddle, thanks to the fine site maintained
    by Royal Feltner of Amesbury, Massachusetts.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    c.1898 Unknown Builder Steam Runabout

    From the Buess Family Collection. Entirely Original and Unrestored, Single Ownership Since 1946

    Steam automobiles are fascinating. Their performance, as frequently and ably demonstrated by the Stanley brothers, is exceptional, not just for the time but even today. Their nearly silent operation is magical. Their mechanical function is a source of constant entertainment. Rods, cams, shafts, cranks, valves, and eccentrics operate in an intricate syncopation that invites inquiry and tinkering to achieve precise timing and smooth function. The innate appeal of steam is that it generates its maximum torque at zero rpm and maintains that level of performance almost constantly throughout its operating range. Moving off from a dead stop is smooth and powerful.

    In the automobile’s earliest days, steam power was a worthy competitor to electricity and the internal combustion engine. Fuel for the boiler was available anywhere as was its other consumable, water. Steam power was well established and expertise in its operation, tuning, and maintenance was widespread. Every community of any size had a steam powered mill, shop or factory, a power plant, or railroad at hand where mechanics and operators were familiar with boilers and engines. That made it relatively simple for an inquisitive mechanic to build a steam powered automobile. Plans and sketches were readily available in books and magazines. Examples from Stanley, Locomobile, White, and others were widely publicized and pictured. In fact, the “Standard Catalog of American Cars, 1805-1942” lists over a page (in famously small print) of steam car manufacturers, many of them on record as building only one or two examples.

    The manufacturer of this undated steam runabout has never been identified. It was one of two antique vehicles acquired in 1946 by Fred Buess from Elgin O. Baker, setting Buess back the princely sum of $10. Over the years Buess and his friends in the early days of car collecting, famous names like Edgar Bergen, James Melton, Art Twohy, and Ward Kimball, frequently but ultimately inconclusively debated its origins while enjoying the details of its design, the quality of its construction and several unusual features, particularly its left-hand drive configuration which was almost unheard of in the early days of the automobile. The layout and construction hinted at a creative, thoughtful, and competent constructor willing to emulate features he considered well designed but also secure enough in his concepts and talents to deviate when it appeared to be desirable or offered an improvement on existing practice.

    The design is typical of steam cars of the era, which were noted for their ruggedness and simplicity. The body, which sits on a wheelbase about 2” longer than that of a contemporary Stanley, is highly unusual but the suspension and chassis design are conventional. During the Buess family’s ownership it was never used and it still has its original block drive chain and rides on the single tube tires that were on it when acquired. In all important aspects it is original and it was last in service before World War II – probably many years before World War II. Opportunities to acquire original, carefully preserved, automobiles dating from the last years of the Nineteenth or early years of the Twentieth Century rarely come along. Even rarer are steamers of such vintage. Most that do surface are dilapidated and incomplete, making the opportunity to acquire this attractively designed and well built steamer that has been in dry storage for sixty-four years a rare opportunity. Its provenance as a long term part of the collection of Fred Buess and his family adds immeasurably to its attraction.

    Pics;

    http://www.wwgauctions.com/details.c...21&id=30&pic=1
     
  9. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Jim, Hiya. I get the general impression this may have been one of the earliest SUCCESSFUL steam cars. From the add'l pix, looks as though it may have run on FOUR cylinders?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 13,237

    swi66
    Member

    Wow!
    What a find, I followed the link and checked out the additional pictures.
    One can only wonder if this was truly a one-off or if there was more.
    Can those actually be considered tires?
    They look like bands of rubber attached to the rim............
     
  11. the DutchDude
    Joined: Mar 11, 2010
    Posts: 282

    the DutchDude
    Member

    don't know if this is a repost or not,,
    some cars i find interesting and that are by my knowings extinct or rare,,
    lincoln futura j,, also known as the batmobile and for it's concept model,, but these should have been made 12 or some,, it's also the only picture i can find,, in this status that is,,

    [​IMG]

    the aeromobile,, the top is removeable,, to fit wings on it so it could fly,, seriously!!

    [​IMG]

    everybody knows checkers,, but the old ones are nearly extinct!!

    [​IMG]

    and last but not least, this should like the mustang be also a factory option at the time,,

    [​IMG]

    and please correct me if i'm wrong:D
     
  12. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    The Tucker Tally
    <!--END Page Title --> <!--BEGIN Content Body //--> April 15, 2010

    By Jay Follis; photos provided through TuckerClub.org

    [​IMG]

    Tucker No. 1027 is one of four Tucker ’48s that did
    not survive to the present. Its parts were used to
    restore other Tuckers. (Tucker Historical Collection)

    As with any rare or desirable collectible, there is the universal dream of discovering the unknown, the one that’s been forgotten, or the missing. It’s certainly true when it comes to the 1948 Tucker, with values hovering between $750,000 and $1 million for one of the survivors. Out of 51 built, 47 Tuckers remain. But before treasure hunting for a missing Tucker, read on to learn the facts known behind those “missing” cars.

    No other automobile has ignited the imagination of the public, captured the attention of the collector world and spawned more controversy than Preston Tucker’s dream car — the Tucker ’48. Introduced to the car-hungry American public following World War II, the revolutionary rear-engined Tucker featured many safety innovations, including a pop-out windshield, padded dash, passenger crash chamber and a turning, third “Cyclops” headlamp to illuminate the way around corners, all of which stirred the public’s interest.

    Much has been written and much has been speculated about Preston Tucker and his cars. Much also has been simply repeated as fact, and myths abound. One myth that seems to be often repeated is that only 37 Tuckers were completed at the factory, and all others were built years later from left-over parts.

    Car build records from Tucker Corp. and the March 3, 1949, court-ordered inventory compiled by Tucker Corp. general production manager Dan Leabu indicate that the company produced one prototype (known as the “Tin Goose”) and 50 pilot production cars. Of these cars, 38 could be driven, while the remaining 13 were awaiting the installation of their transmissions or engines, which were available. The 50th car on the line also required upholstery panels. For all intents and purposes, these were completed cars, rather than just a pile of random parts to be assembled later.

    To date, only one car — No. 1051, at the time an unfinished body and chassis — has been completed years after the company closed its doors.

    But not all of the Tucker stories have happy endings.

    The Tucker Automobile Club of America Inc. — recognized as the foremost authority on Tucker Automobiles — has worked diligently since its founding in 1973 to trace the history of all Tucker cars. Each Tucker has its own story, and while most cars have been very well documented, their history is not definitive or infallible. Research is always ongoing as new facts and puzzle pieces are uncovered.

    Beginning in the late 1950s, a few Tucker owners tracked down all of the Tuckers produced. Incomplete owner lists were begun by Ralph Dunwoodie of the Harrah Collection in 1963, noted Franklin and Tucker restorer Bill Hamlin in 1966 and others. By 1973, a group of owners and enthusiasts met at Stan Gilliland’s shop in Kansas and the Tucker Automobile Club of America Inc. was born. The first comprehensive record of these cars — and most of what has been learned about their earlier ownership — is due to the lifelong research conducted by Richard Jones, TACA co-founder and senior Tucker historian, and, more recently, the work of college dean and legal scholar Larry Clark.

    Thanks to the research by these historians, here’s what we know about the four Tuckers no longer in existence:

    [​IMG]

    Tucker No. 1018 in late summer of 1948.
    (Richard Jones photo).

    Tucker No. 1018

    The 18th Tucker produced, painted beige and carrying serial number 1018, was sold by Tucker Corp. on July 30, 1948, to its New York-area distributor, Buffalo Tucker Sales. George McKinney of Bradford, Pa., owned both the Buffalo distributorship and the dealership in Titusville, Pa., and would later become chairman of the Tucker Distributors and Dealers Committee.

    [​IMG]

    Tucker 1018 in 1949 or ’50 after striking a tree in
    New York. (Cammack Collection photo)

    In September and October 1948, local newspapers reported McKinney driving the Tucker to “various towns, giving demo rides and showing the car to friends.” One paper even reported that several people driving their cars past the Tucker turned around “and hurried back to give the car a look-over.”

    [​IMG]

    A 2002 auction included a Tucker parts assortment
    consigned by the Kughn Collection that included the
    unrestored front end from Tucker No. 1018.
    (Tucker Historical Collection)


    It was sometime after these news reports were published that Tucker No. 1018 was involved in a crash, apparently hitting a tree broadside near South Wales, N.Y., which left it damaged beyond repair. No injuries were reported, and the salvaged remains, which included the entire front clip of the car, were returned to Bradford, Pa.

    In 1992, the engine, radiator, fender vents, and under-seat heater from Tucker No. 1018 were purchased by a collector, while the front clip was located by another and later sold at RM Auctions’ 2002 Novi, Mich., event.

    Tucker No. 1023

    The 23rd car down the pilot assembly line, Tucker No. 1023, was painted maroon when it was completed at the Tucker factory in September 1948. From there, it headed to Massachusetts and New York as a company demonstrator before finding its way to Florida nearly 30 years later.

    [​IMG]

    Tucker No. 1023 prior to the fire.

    The car, now painted in primer and showing its age, was in storage as it awaited restoration. But in the early morning hours of Sept. 29, 1978, the unthinkable happened: fire broke out. The 20,000-square-foot Allied Van Lines warehouse in Deland, Fla., in which the car was stored became completely engulfed with fire; a column of thick black smoke could still be seen 16 hours after firefighters arrived.

    [​IMG]

    The burned-out, rusted, warped hulk of Tucker
    No. 1023 around 1980 just moments before it entered
    the scrap yard crusher and was reduced to a square
    block of metal. It was later buried in the yard of
    Tucker restorer Richard Jones. (Richard Jones photo)

    The building served as storage for many Allied customers, housed an auction and a heavy equipment repair service and stored more than 100,000 yards of military camouflage fabric for the Brunswick Corp. These contents burned so hot that fire investigators had to use cranes to remove the mass of twisted steel beams. Under the rubble lay what was left of Tucker No. 1023.

    The damaged Tucker sat unprotected until April 1980 when it was finally released from the site. The rusted, warped hulk revealed only a few salvageable items when noted Tucker historian Richard Jones inspected it and brought it home. What was left was taken to the scrap yard crusher, reduced to a square block of metal and later buried in his back yard.

    “Today,” explained Jones, “my two-and-a-half-car garage rests on top of the remains of Tucker No. 1023.”

    Tucker No. 1027

    Beginning in mid-September 1948 and lasting through the first week of October, Preston Tucker utilized the 2-1/2-mile oval track at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for endurance testing his new automobile. Seven Tucker sedans, fresh from the firm’s pilot production line, were each driven the 180 miles from the Cicero Avenue plant in Chicago to the Indy track.

    The vehicles were driven continuously through a range of different speed tests day and night, with stops made only for fuel and driver swaps. In the end, a total of 13,134 miles — averaging 1,876 miles per car — and a vast amount of data was recorded during the test. The company’s “Engineering Observation Report” dated Oct. 18, 1948, describes what took place with Tucker No. 1027 during the tests.
    [​IMG]

    This September 1948 factory photo shows Tucker
    No. 1027 after it rolled twice during endurance
    testing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The
    90-mph crash was attributed to vapor lock and
    sudden loss of power as it entered a turn. (Tucker
    Historical Collection)


    Tucker No. 1027 ran the first 1,360 miles of the test traveling counter-clockwise, the normal direction used in circle track racing, and at set speeds of 35, 55 and 65 mph.

    At 3 a.m., Tucker’s chief engineer, Eddie Offutt, the legendary Indy 500 mechanic who had worked for Harry Miller, took over driving Tucker No. 1027. After Offutt’s first fuel stop, he returned to the track driving clockwise — the reversed direction from earlier — and maintained speeds of 85-90 mph.

    [​IMG]

    The still-existing door from Tucker No. 1027.
    (Tucker Historical Collection)


    The report indicates that after several laps at these speeds, the engine died (attributed to high-octane racing fuel causing a vapor lock) just as Offutt entered the northeast turn. The sudden loss of power and centrifugal force going into the turn “threw the car into a spin causing the rear tire to blow. This sent the car off the track and into the infield grass where it again turned and headed back on the track, turning over twice — once entirely off the ground — before it righted itself.”

    The car was brought back to the staging area and inspected. The engine started and ran smooth, the safety windshield had popped out as designed, and Offutt only suffered a bruised elbow. Photographs taken the next morning show the body damage to the car.

    Tucker No. 1027 was not scrapped, but rather returned to the Engineering Department of the factory where the engine was removed. On the March 3, 1949, factory inventory, it was listed as “no engine, wrecked.”

    On Oct. 18, 1950, the car was sold at the court-ordered bankruptcy auction as a lot described as “Cars & Parts, Assorted” for $950. The buyer was an Illinois car dealer who would eventually become a source for several Tucker cars and parts. In 1951, a letter advertising the dealer’s Tucker inventory lists “Tucker No. 1027 – wrecked, $1,500” among his offerings, which also included complete, running cars for $5,000.

    While it is unclear what happened to the body and chassis of Tucker No. 1027 — in which the front clip remained in remarkable condition — we do know that its engine, seats and rear bumper were used in the restoration of other Tuckers. Today, the smashed front doors are part of a private collection.

    Tucker No. 1042

    Possibly the most bizarre case of a missing Tucker, based mostly on anecdotal evidence and word of mouth, is the story of Tucker No. 1042. Rumors abound, and the documented truth has eluded researchers for years.

    What is known is that at the October 1950 Tucker Corp. bankruptcy auction, this was one Tucker sold without an engine installed. The current belief by many is that this car was vandalized in the early 1960s and no longer remains. One story maintains that a veteran’s organization sold raffle tickets to “Bash a Tucker,” while another says a disgruntled renter had the car hauled off for scrap. In 1973, automotive writer Memmo Duerksen began following up on a story of a Tucker car that had been discovered near Memphis, Tenn. The story, as related to him, was that around 1960, a man found a Tucker abandoned and nearly covered in weeds along the banks of the Mississippi River. After hauling it home and parking it behind a rental property, the car later came up missing.

    No photos of Tucker No. 1042 are known to exist. The stories have all led to dead ends, and the few remaining parts attributed to this car cannot be positively matched to it.

    Fifty cars out of a total production of 51 can be accounted for, and 47 still remain — not bad for a dream that started more than 60 years ago. Yet, for this one Tucker a mystery remains, and so does the question, “Where have all the Tuckers gone?”

    [About the author: Jay Follis is the president of the Tucker Automobile Club of America Inc., and director of the Tucker Historical Collection and Library at the Gilmore Car Museum in Hickory Corners, Mich. Learn more about the TACA at www.TuckerClub.org.]
     
  13. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 13,237

    swi66
    Member

    I've seen this one.
    It's a vista cruiser roof on top of a Challenger.
    For what it is, good work, but taking a car that was valuable and making it worthless.............
     
  14. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    I agree with Jay Follis that a good deal of myth surrounds Tucker -- man and car -- now, 60 years later. But some (not Follis) seem to take the easy way out and broadbrush the WHOLE Tucker episode of American industry as myth. And that is an injustice to both a good car and a good man whose biggest sins were dreaming big, believeing in the American Dream and, maybe, being a sometimes loud-mouth who got under some people's skins.

    When one takes the trouble to sort facts from myths, the facts about Tucker are impressive enough without any myths attached. And the fact that people are still fascinated by the concepts of WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN, had the government butted out back in '48 stands as a continuing tribute to a company that was snuffed out a-budding.

    THAT SAID, enough Tuckers WERE produced to prove that Preston Tucker wasn't a liar (though, as stated, he was too big a dreamer, I'll admit), and his cars did about everything he'd said they would do -- I think, MORE. Here on the HAMB, there's a fella who remembers a Tucker running well in circle-track use, and I myself remember a feature article in a hotrod magazine in the early '70s recounting a Tucker beating a new "Rocket 88" Olds in three consecutive drag races on the same day at a midwestern state fairgrounds.

    Finally, the fact that Tucker company officials were compelled to produce a report as to how many cars were completed as of a certain date does beg the question of how many parts were available at the factory which could have been used to build yet more finished cars (they still get auctioned on eBay and sold among ocllectors today). I know that the national club does not recognize the validity of the singular Tucker convertible, despite all of the documentation the restorer/builder presented. Myself -- a former skeptic, too -- came around after looking far enough into the matter. And I feel the convertible serves as a good example of what I stated in the first sentence of this paragraph.

    At any rate, the Tucker automobile is surely one of the most talked-about U.S. cars ever. To use a myth-metaphore: Sort of the Davy Crockett of cars, eh? LOL
     
  15. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    I'm still stymied trying to find an actual photo of a 1912 GM-made Marquette (way before the 1930 Buick companion car). This was actually the first auto make ORIGINATED by the new General Motors, so I can't believe it's so hard to find a photo. Did ANY of these 1912 Marquettes even survive???

    There's plenty of INFO about the independents Rainier and Welch which were bought up by Billy Durant who, then, could not get them into the black and canned them to instead make the Marquette -- which got shelved by the end of its inaugural year. Hey, at least it too an iceberg to sink the Titanic in 1912; apparently, all it took as a $3,500-$4,000 price tag to sink the new GM Marquette make!

    Probably harder still: Durant apparently had some of the last 1912 Marquettes badged as "Peninsular" cars. Heck, nobody said the search for extinct cars would be easy, but I think I have "found" two that seem to be not only defunct but EXTINCT: 1912 Marquette and 1912 Peninsular.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks to americanautomobiles.com, here is at least a magazine ad
    for the 1912 Marquette. Check the over-the-top -- even redundant
    -- pitches in the ad copy!
     
  16. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Jimi;

    Just checked the HCCA membership directory. Two 1912 Marquette 25 Tourings are listed, one in Colorado and one in New York.
     
  17. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    1908 Holsman Model 10-K High-Wheeler

    From the Buess Family Collection. Single Ownership Since 1946, Entirely Original and Unrestored.

    Two-cylinder opposed, 12 ALAM horsepower, infinitely variable chain/belt drive transmission, live axle suspension with leaf springs, mechanical brakes.

    Picture in your mind Main Street, USA in 1946; Brand Boulevard in the Los Angeles suburb of Glendale to be exact; World War II was over and America was rediscovering itself as a world leader in peacetime. Europe was devastated by nearly a decade of war. On the street many 1930’s cars had been nursed through the wartime drought of new cars. Those who remember that time say that everything, from storefronts to sidewalks and asphalt, looked tired after five years of focus on defeating the Axis powers. Into this scene rolled the high-wheeler pictured here with designed obsolescence, even for 1908. Elgin O. Baker was the driver and Fred Buess was so taken with it that he bought the Holsman on the spot for $200. It was a steep price to pay for such an old and outmoded vehicle.

    One of the intriguing features of the earliest generation of automobiles is the unfettered ingenuity of the mechanics and tinkerers who built them. There was no “right way” to build an automobile. Their creativity knew no bounds of convention. Occasionally a truly prescient example comes to light which challenges the conventional thinking of their successors. This 1908 Holsman 10-K embodies such an insight.

    Although the Holsman’s trumpeted feature was its extensive hand controls (Henry Holsman believed the hands were educated and the feet were not; therefore he built vehicles with only foot-operated brakes) under the floorboards of the late Holsmans like this 1908 Model 10-K resided a concept that would engage automobile designers for generations.

    The Holsman Automobile Works were formed in 1901, and in 1902 were renamed the Holsman Automobile Company located at 153 La Salle Street in Chicago. The Holsman high-wheeler was introduced to the public at the Chicago Automobile Show in January 1903. Holsman continued to build their internal combustion engined buggies until January 1910 primarily for buyers in the Midwest where wagon ruts on the rudimentary trails that passed for roads still posed problems for cars with less ground clearance. They were surprisingly good performers with opposed two-cylinder air-cooled engines and massive wheels. The first Holsmans had rope drive between the jack shaft and the rear wheel sheaves. In late 1906 7/8” steel cable replaced the rope. Next, a 3/16” link belt woven with clothesline and wrapped with friction tape was used. In 1909, Holsman designed the “K” engine with increased horsepower and two outboard flywheels. The design replaced bronze and babbitt plain bearings with ball and roller bearings throughout. For this improved motor (Holsman always referred to his engines as “motors”) a new link chain drive was devised. With this arrangement the steel link chain engaged low gear when the sheaves on the end of the engine crankshaft were fully opened. As speed increased the link chain works up onto movable tapered belt sheaves. As the sheaves are closed the link chain is lifted off its positive drive sprocket and functions as a belt. The diameter of the engine pulleys is increased as the sheaves close for higher gearing. Holsman had invented an infinite ratio automatic transmission with positive, direct drive in its lowest ratio for difficult pulling conditions, adding to the contention that, “there’s nothing new under the sun.”

    Carefully preserved in the Buess family’s collection since 1946, the car runs with surprising silence and efficiency. It is believed to be one of only two Holsman Model 10-Ks in existence. Fred Buess never changed the car, and it is today as it was in 1946 when its appearance and mechanical ingenuity first captivated him.

    Pics;

    http://www.wwgauctions.com/details.cfm?vehicleID=123&id=30&pic=1
     
  18. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Hi, Jim! That's great to hear that there are two of the 1912s. What does the HCCA acronym stand for? I wonder if the owners ever show them in public, take pix, and whether they run. I guess it's hopeless to see a still-existing derivative Peninsular.
     
  19. OLD-OLD TIMER
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 38

    OLD-OLD TIMER
    Member
    from indiana

    Hello I used to live in Lafayette In. In the summer of 1948 at a Standard oil station
    at South St. and bypass 52 I and buddies seen a red and a blue one stop there for
    gas. For years everyone said we made up the story but in the movie they said that
    6 or 7 were on the way to Indy 500 track for testing. Lafayette was about 150 to
    175 miles from Chicago and a good place to stop for gas.

    old-old timer
     
  20. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    OLD-OLD TIMER, THANKS for chiming in with your first-hand remembrance! It's personal stories like this that really help put meat on the bones of history -- which otherwise fades into mythology. Now, you and your buddies actually got to TALK with the guys in the Tucker???

    Your account is exciting, too, because the two-tone Tucker must have been somewhat of a trial to see how the body style would adapt to multi-color treatment. If not mistaken, I think they all went out, officially, in single colors.

    These photos are thanks to the Tucker Club of America. To see nearly all of the known Tuckers, search their site at www.tuckerclub.org/html/see_a_tucker.php. The club site also gives specifics on WHERE to see those Tuckers that are on public display.

    [​IMG]
    #1039

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #1049, only Tucker in Europe
     
  21. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Oops, sorry! On re-reading your post, I realize you and your pals saw TWO Tuckers -- a red and a blue. So, single-color schemes they were!
     
  22. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Both cool and controversial. BUT, it's hard to believe owner/restorer Justin
    Cole passed up $1.4 M for the one-of-a-kind Tucker drop-top in January, no?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  23. OLD-OLD TIMER
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 38

    OLD-OLD TIMER
    Member
    from indiana

    Thanks
    I sure remember my buddy's and me being told we weren't telling the truth.
    The 4? guys with the Tuckers were not talking very much! As kids 12yrs
    old or so we thought the center turning headlight was the big deal we didn't know the engine was in the back then!

    old-old timer
     
  24. OLD-OLD TIMER
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 38

    OLD-OLD TIMER
    Member
    from indiana

    Looking at the list red and the blue one must have been 1004 and 1007?
    There used to be a green one at the Cord museum at Auburn was that one 1068
    or 1017? Where did it go or was it on loan?

    old-old timer
     
  25. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Fascinating Tucker history here. I'm too tired tonight to research any answers, so I'll take it up when I can, brother!
     

  26. Just my $.02 but I would think that preston would have done a 2-door sedan first and then a convertible from a 2-door sedan or maybe a 4-door converible from the Tucker 48. Just my $.02!
     
  27. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    OLD-OLD Timer, you may be right. How early in '48 did you see the two Tuckers? Can you take a wag at what the MONTH of the year was? If pretty early, the cars could have been from early in the production run and, therefore, likely candidates for endurance runs at Indy.

    Pix of the ACTUAL serialized cars are thanks to the Tucker Automobile Club of America.

    [​IMG]
    #1004

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #1007
     
  28. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Okay, to me this is about as mysterious as the shifter on the Cord 810/812.
    Anyone KNOWLEDGEABLE about HOW Preston's gizmo here worked???

    [​IMG]
     
  29. OLD-OLD TIMER
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 38

    OLD-OLD TIMER
    Member
    from indiana

    All I remember is that school was out! 62 years ago is a long time ago. I
    think it had to be close to when the tests at the 500race track was done?
    does anyone have those dates?

    old-old timer
     
  30. RamblerClassic
    Joined: Dec 5, 2009
    Posts: 140

    RamblerClassic
    Member

    Well, i know of a few,

    My father has a 1919 Velie (REAL ONE), in storage.

    He works for a guy that has a giant Doane (dont know much about it).
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.