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Hot Rods Waking up a 250

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by drew1987, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Hello all

    2 years ago I purchased a 250 from a friend supposedly running when pulled. I don't know the last time it ran, but it has a very modern looking "Fram Tough Guard" silver oil filter on it.

    It turns by hand, and albeit low, there is clean oil in it. The water pump is obviously bone dry and wasn't sealed, I don't know what was done to put it into hibernation. I am going to want to get it started (I have an old Toyota radiator I can rig up) and get
    It to operating temperature and vacuum/compression test it. I am going to need some help identifying things with this one.

    First of all, the casting number is 3877178 and that says 1962-78 230/250. It also says CON 2 and H35 maybe H350

    I am going to grab the stamped number by the distributor shortly and see if that clears it up. I'd love to know if it's 230/250 but I must know the date. I don't think I want something older that unleaded gas cause then I'll end up with valves pounded into soft seats like my dead 235 I am still grieving over

    Thanks
     
  2. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    Drew, Pull a spark plug and bring that cylinder to TDC, then look into the spark plug hole with a flashlight; 230's had flat top pistons, 250's had dished pistons. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
    scrap metal 48 likes this.
  3. Unless its a integrated head engine it will have soft valves & seats. However all you need to do is add a quart of diesel for every twenty gallons of gas and you will not have valve problems. Also you can put those valve rotators on the exhaust and they will add to reliability. My 66 GMC 250 is driven daily and all I ever do is add a bit of diesel to the fuel. Before starting up that zombie engine soak the cyls & pistons a few days. My favorite cyl soak is 1/2 diesel and 1/2 auto trans fluid. MM oil is good too. The 250 will out perform the 235 and turn more RPM and get better fuel economy.
     
  4. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Hey butch! I will if this doesn't clear it but, but the stamped code is f0608fa, which, decodes to flint Michigan made, on June 8th, 230 1bbl 3 speed motor in 1965.

    Old wolf: I have never heard of that, other than to lower octane. What does it do that protects the valve? I always thought it was the actual lead that protects and cushions the seats.

    are there any bad effects to the carb/fuel pump/gas tank?

    Also, I would probly get 1 gallon of diesel at a time... And for my 12 gallon tank, use 2/3 of a quart. Would that remainder of the gallon be ok sitting around for months at a time or would it go bad like gas? Also is it safe to fill a couple old oil quart jugs and leave them in the trunk?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015

  5. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    I also want to add that this motor has a super short fuel pump. The entire motor, outside edge of the top cast-on bell housing (the half that's part of the motor that flairs out) to the tip of the fan is under 35" isn't that actually shorter than a 235?
     
  6. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Are the bolts that hold on the bell housing, or an engine stand, 3/8, 7/16, or one half? I assume theyre standard thread correct?
     
  7. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,794

    squirrel
    Member

    The bolts to the bellhousing on a 230 are 3/8"
     
  8. The diesel will lubricate the valve seats . diesel does lose some of its cetane when setting, however its not as bad as gas. you could also add some outboard motor oil instead of diesel. The old farm tractors used to have two gas tanks. a small one gallon tank that you started the engine with. and you turned a shutter on the radiator to get the engine temp up to the high side of the green. Then you turned off the small tank and turned on thebig tank. In the big tank was distillate wich was a very low grade of diesel. and the distillate never hurt the carbs. corn gas will do more damage to carb parts and fuel pumps than diesel.
     
  9. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Thanks gents. This old thing doesn't have a starter (yet) but I may just borrow one and get her fired up on a stand. I just hope the dryness inside the waterpump and passages isn't going to cause an issue. I may put a radiator on it and run it on a stand for a long while. Is that ok with the exhaust just dumping out of the manifold or do I need a length of pipe and a muffler for back pressure?

    Thanks
     
  10. you don't need a exhaust or pipe. I would hook up a radiator
     
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,794

    squirrel
    Member

    I would only run it till it gets warm, then do whatever you need to do with it. If it has good oil pressure, doesn't smoke, etc then it should be fine when you put it in the car.

    The only issue with the water pump might be that the seal is going out, but you'll probably put a new pump on before installing the engine, won't you? Fuel and water pumps (and freeze plugs and front and rear oil seals) are things that it's a good idea to replace while it's easy. Most everything else, you can run "as is" and see how it works.
     
  12. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Thanks guys. I would hope to keep this water pump, it's a rather unusual one. It's quite short, and will make things easier if I choose to use this motor, I might not have to move the radiator in my car. Also, how would I check oil pressure? Do these use the same capillary type of gauge that might 1950 Chevy has? Or is it something electronic?

    Also, here's a dumb question: is it a good idea to run it sitting on blocks? Or should I get an engine stand

    Another question that may sound dumb: should lock washers be used when installing a bell housing? Never done it before. And I think I need to put on the bell housing in order to put on a starter? It's the same starter is just about any small block right?
     
  13. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    Chevrolet's use two sizes of flywheels/flex-plates (later years); 153 tooth uses a straight across bolt pattern for the starter motor (most common for the smaller engines), 168 tooth uses a staggered bolt pattern on the starter motor. You could probably just use a garden hose plugged into a radiator hose, and adjust the flow with the water spigot to cool the engine once it's running. With a block mounted starter motor, you don't need to have a bell-housing in place, but it would be safer. A cradle could be made out of scrap lumber to get the job done, but I would't get carried away revving the engine; torque could tip it over. A simple oil pressure gauge/tubing. You're not going to run the engine long enough to really worry about water temperature. One last thing, the offer still stands on the "kit" to convert your car, before I post it here on the HAMB also (he knows what I'm referring to). I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  14. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Thank you! I really appreciate it. I had a starter in my hand and my friends barn tonight, but didn't know if it was staggered are straight… Didn't want to take both and be like that ha ha so I'm holding off. Besides, I need to make sure I lubricate the inside first. I still haven't decided whether I'm gonna put in the straight six or a small block, but either way, most likely even if I keep the 235, I am ditching the torque tube in this rear-ended. I do really appreciate it though
     
  15. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,608

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You can use the 250 and keep the stock trans and torque tube rear end. 1942 - 54 there are 2 different trans housing, one is drilled for the newer bell housing the other isn't. They say the one you want is often found in pickup trucks but some are in cars, you may have the right one and not know it.

    All other trans parts interchange, if you have the right trans case. Then the engine bolts up to your stock power train. The 250 is more powerful than your old 235 but not enough to kill the trans if you don't go crazy. By that I mean, no popping the clutch from a dead stop and no banging shifts. Shift in a normal way, and let it develop some momentum before you give it the works and there will be no problem. Of course this is true of any transmission.

    You have good advice so far. Do you have a mechanical oil pressure gauge, that is one with a plastic pipe on it? That would be the easiest to use. Connect it where the stock oil light sender goes. If you can make some kind of stand and get the engine running, then do a compression test and check the oil pressure you will know if you have a good motor.
     
  16. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,608

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You can use a little Marvel Mystery Oil, Redex, Bardahl or your favorite upper cylinder lube to protect the valves. The sixes were not as prone to valve seat recession as the performance motors anyway.
     
  17. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Rusty

    I don't have a mechanical oil guage but I can probly get one. As for the above, I have heard that truck bell housings will do the trick connecting a 235 to an open drive like a 3 speed Saginaw that would normally go with a smallblock, but I have never heard of a bell that would take a 49-54 car transmission and a smallblock pattern (the 194/230/250/292 is smallblock right?) if such a creature exists and is attainable (usually the deal killer here in the upper western ny area) that may be a good temporary fix. I originally (when I thought my 235 was rock solid) wanted to put a 55-62 bell on it from a car that came with a 235 and use my old 235 with a modern Trans like a Borg Warner overdrive or maybe a t5 but I dont want a floor shifter
     
  18. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,608

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    The 250 uses the same bellhousing as a Chev V8 which is different from the 235. This bell will bolt up to a stock, torque tube drive transmission provided it has the right trans case. There are 2 transmissions with different cases but the same guts, that were used with torque tube drive 1942 - 54. Hope this is clear.

    Of course if you want to junk the stock drive train and go with an open drive train none of this matters.

    But, if you wanted to save the work and expense you could keep the stock drive train. Also, the Powerglide equipped 50 to 54 cars have a 3.55:1 rear axle gear ratio vs 3.7 for manual trans and 4:11 for pre 52 manual trans. The 3.55 diff and drive shaft assembly will bolt into your rear axle housing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2015
  19. Butch has a 4 barrel clifford intake and header set he is selling and I have a complete comp cams set up (cam, lifters, springs, retainers etc etc etc), .499 lift and also alum timing set also ill sell ya, those parts oughta warm it up a smidgen. I even have a hei dist and all the engine chrome goodies, rebuild gasket set complete, crap man, pm, me, I'll load you up w/ 6 banger goodies on the cheap.
    even have a borg warner t-10 4 speed for it
     
  20. GRX
    Joined: Mar 28, 2014
    Posts: 68

    GRX
    Member
    from MD

    As you have discovered, the 230 and 250 are the same block (different stroke) so casting # is of little help. Far as soft seats go ... if memory serves Chevy started induction hardening the exh. seats in '72 the same time as the V-8s. I built a lot, and I do mean a lot, of 250s in the 70s and 80s. Many for fleet service. A common upgrade was/is the marine cam. A step up from that is the "towing cam" which provides more lift & duration. Crowler still makes one to the old GM specs. Part # 03240. Spring/lifter/retainer kit to go along with it is #84008 . Which is what I am running in my current 250 that resides in my '69 chevy truck. Along with a set of split headers & original Monojet carb. Nice improvement in low end with very smooth idle. But all that is getting a bit ahead. Let's get that thing fired up first. Definitely replace the water pump if it has any age. Don't want that bearing going up & trashing your radiator with the fan. Been there, done that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
    volvobrynk likes this.
  21. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Thanks for all this info guys! I am gonna get the thing fired up and see what I got at some point here. I am now leaning (actually, almost completely decided) to putting a small block and auto I my car. I just think I'd really, really enjoy that car that way
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  22. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Update:

    I just pulled all six plugs, shot some 10w30 in each hole, grabbed the flywheel with my wife's gardening gloves (yep) and turned. The thing turned so easy it almost made me fall over it. The inside walls look decent. Definitely NOT like the 235 I just took apart... But decent.

    I did put a compression checker on two cylinders and got nothing but doing it by hand can't be accurate right? I ought to just get a starter?
     
  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,794

    squirrel
    Member

    yeah, you need a starter to check compression. And don't worry too much about the numbers being flaky if you do a compression test on an engine that has not been run for a while...you need to get it running and warmed up before the test results are meaningful.
     
    Flat Six Fix likes this.
  24. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    Yea I'm gonna work on getting it going asap. But I don't think it's going in my car I think I want a small block
     
  25. GRX
    Joined: Mar 28, 2014
    Posts: 68

    GRX
    Member
    from MD

    Can certainly see the allure of a SBC. Cheaper and easier to up the horses. It will put you in a common crowd though. Straight six popularity is rising. People often pass by a sea of small block vehicles just to see & talk about my grimy old 250.
     
  26. drew1987
    Joined: Nov 22, 2015
    Posts: 636

    drew1987

    I know - and I love straight sixes, but I am going for the least expensive way to have the most fun. And I don't open my hood cause fire wall is ugly :) I may sell my 230 as there is a chap locally here building a 65 pickup that needs it, but I will have a car or truck someday that has one cause they are cool
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015

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