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Hot Rods W 409 build...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MOTOV8N, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. MOTOV8N
    Joined: Mar 20, 2015
    Posts: 392

    MOTOV8N
    Member
    from Manitoba

    Just gettin this out there... A couple photos, then i'll fill in the details soon ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428314089.672140.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428314111.138582.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428314128.774003.jpg
     
    mgtstumpy, liv4ths and volvobrynk like this.
  2. MOTOV8N
    Joined: Mar 20, 2015
    Posts: 392

    MOTOV8N
    Member
    from Manitoba

    ...the fumes are kinda gettin to me... ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428316064.603878.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428316093.640384.jpg
     
  3. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    That's a mighty fine 4-0-9!

    I find them so cool!
    Keep at it, Lad!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  4. MOTOV8N
    Joined: Mar 20, 2015
    Posts: 392

    MOTOV8N
    Member
    from Manitoba

    Un-masked... ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1428317903.942631.jpg
     
    mgtstumpy and liv4ths like this.

  5. MOTOV8N
    Joined: Mar 20, 2015
    Posts: 392

    MOTOV8N
    Member
    from Manitoba

    By the way, all 348 - 409 photos are welcome!
     
    Hotrodmyk likes this.
  6. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,737

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Looking good and a truck block to boot. What kind of crank do you have swinging them big ol slugs.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  7. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 7,539

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I knew the 409s have a Heron head but I don't think I ever saw the deck of one before. What's the purpose of the crescent shaped reliefs in the cylinder walls? And the flats on the intake sides of the pistons provide some squish? How does the combustion chamber work (compare) in general to a standard wedge? How about the ports on these engines? Being 'truck' engines I guess not high flow stuff? Thanks for the photos.
     
    Scott67 likes this.
  8. The notch at the top of a truck block drops the compression about a 1/2 point. The stock truck heads are similar to low perf 348 heads in valve size and port size. However, the truck heads have a small combustion chamber as well. The actual combustion chamber is located in the cylinder-compression is changed by changing pistons.
     
  9. models916
    Joined: Apr 19, 2012
    Posts: 380

    models916
    Member

    Bore cuts lower the compression on the truck engines without playing with the heads and pistons too much. All the trucks heads are pretty crappy stock. 333 head with the rotators removed will get by. 348/409 likes tight quench. I run mine 28 on the high side rock. 11:1 on pump premium without problems. Runs best with total timing at 34 degrees.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  10. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 26,644

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    will be watching for updates
     
  11. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 892

    PackardV8
    Member

    A classic Heron head is flat, but with the combustion chamber contained within a dished depression in the top of the piston. The W-engines don't have a classic Heron head. The heads are flat, but the chamber is formed by the angle of the block deck. The low compression versions have a flattop piston forming a true wedge chamber. The higher compression versions have some squish provided by a very cumbersome and heavy piston.

    The angled block deck was also found in the Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln V8 introduced about the same time as the W-engine.

    The angled block deck was found to have more negatives in terms of piston design limitations than advantages from no valve shrouding. Both designs were taken out of production in the early '6os and the Ford OHV8s and BBC which succeeded these featured "porcupine" multiple inclined valve angles with the chamber back in the head.

    jack vines
     
  12. Tony
    Joined: Dec 3, 2002
    Posts: 7,350

    Tony
    Member

    Looking good!
    Gotta love a 409 ;)
    Last one i did on the left, GM built the one on the right.
    image.jpg
     
  13. OK. I'll play.
    Here is one I am putting in my old truck:


    348 engine in my 34 pickup.JPG
     
  14. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,661

    Larry T
    Member

  15. Or you could fill that notch in with JB weld. :rolleyes: :D

    Hey weren't the truck motors down around 8:1 stock?
     
  16. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,661

    Larry T
    Member

    Benno,
    Most of that was in the pistons. The notch in the cylinder drops the compression a little, but might add a little to breathing by unshrouding the valve.
     
  17. The unshrouding of the valve was something that I always thought was a good thing. I have had guys argue the point with me but you know me I am a total ass when I et something in my head. ;)

    I personally am always trying to keep a running list of motors inmy head that make good quick blower motors so the lower compression truck motors from the factory are always something that I look for.

    hey look at your messages I want to pick your brain about something OT.
     
  18. oldcars.acadia
    Joined: Jan 20, 2003
    Posts: 212

    oldcars.acadia
    Member

    61 Biscayne.
     

    Attached Files:

    MOTOV8N likes this.
  19. By the way I never mentioned it and should have cool motor. :cool: Anyone who doesn't love a W motor truck block or not has a screw loose.o_O:eek::D
     
  20. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,661

    Larry T
    Member

    Nothing wrong with truck blocks. The one with the finned aluminum covers I posted above started as a truck engine. Did lots of changing, but it should hang with a factory QB (HiPo 2X4) engine.
     
  21. cavman
    Joined: Mar 23, 2005
    Posts: 646

    cavman
    Member

     

    Attached Files:

    jadegrenade 51, MOTOV8N and deto like this.
  22. Tony
    Joined: Dec 3, 2002
    Posts: 7,350

    Tony
    Member

    Larry T
    W motor and a panhead.....hell of a pair!
    NICE!!

    Tony
     
    Larry T likes this.
  23. wingman9
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 804

    wingman9
    Member
    from left coast

    Larry T, could you give me some details about the paint on the valve covers in the middle picture?
     
  24. Yea and its probably a real pan too not a repop. Pretty fancy covers though.
     
  25. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,737

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    The notch in the block is also there for exhaust valve clearance and if you run oversize valves you can have a clearance problem on a pass block you can ask me how I know.
     
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  26. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,661

    Larry T
    Member

    Wingman9,
    The painted valve covers were a 1962 only deal on the 400 and 409 hp/409s. In 1963 they went to chromed valvecovers on the HiPo engines.

    The paint has a green tint to the silver. It's supposed to be the "right" color. It came from Show Cars (409 specialty parts).

    Benno,
    The engine is an original 1951 engine with good numbers and matching belly numbers. I spent a ton of money having the original heads "rebuilt" by the best (supposedly) Panhead rebuilder in the country at the time. Trouble is, they were in about as bad a shape when they got back as they were when I sent them. So I went with STD heads. The rocker covers are original (60s/70s) Randy Smith Custom Cycle Engineering parts. I had to buy 2 sets and use 2 front covers to get the full finned covers on both heads. About a month after that, they started selling repops. :D
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  27. LOL if the best panhead builder in the country got those heads I would have done them right for you. :D :D Those old heads were hard to work with, a lot of guys used to mill the brass seats out of them and try and put pressed in hard seats, that didn't work well, something about the alloy that they used when they cast the heads. We discovered that screw in seats worked best.

    @saltflats,
    I have had to notch a Hypo 409 block to clear the valves before, not nearly as much as a truck block is notched but still had to relieve one before. I am no expert about it and may be totally incorrect but I think that the notch in the truck block had more to do with it then just to lower compression, I think it was something that they did to build low end torque. It is not something tat I could prove and I have never read anything about it being that it is just something that I have grown in my head.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  28. pdq67
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 787

    pdq67
    Member

    I put together an 11.5 to 1 cr'd .060" over/409 back years ago. It had a NASCAR solid cam in it and a reworked 348 trip intake that I put three big Rochester 2-barrels on.. 2.5" cast-iron exhaust manifolds with Imp exhaust pipes with one flipped 180 degrees and all this bolted right onto my '67 Camaro 350SS's engine bay just like it was stock!! It started off life as a lime truck engine.. I gave $50 for it back then... Chrome valve covers and chrome trip air filter housing..

    Sucker ran like a SB on steroids!!

    pdq67
     
  29. Lobucrod
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 4,122

    Lobucrod
    Alliance Vendor
    from Texas

    My 409 Truck motor in my 38 Chevy Coupe
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2015

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