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Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  2. indybigjohn
    Joined: May 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,714

    indybigjohn
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    Not a sprinter, but full of memories for me. This was my best friend in the 60s, Dick Winburn of Louisville, driving our TQ at Brandenburg, Ky. We lost him in a truck wreck near Cincinnati in the mid-70s.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. jimg12
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 307

    jimg12
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    Charlie Wiggams was a car owner after he got hurt real bad on the Indy mile. Joie Ray drove for him a couple of times.
    John, the TQ picture at Brandenburg- what year was that taken? I was there in 64 or 65 and Roy Young blew up Bob Ayers car in pactice and did not know they ran there after roll cages. Real little track.
    I did not listen to the song you guys were talking about, was it the Ballad of Jimmy Bryan/ If so I had [might still have] a 45 of it. Always brought tears to my eyes.
    Jim Graybeal
     
  4. racer5c
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 2,218

    racer5c
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    Bill Vukovich jr. in my dad's sprint car leads Mike Mosley Vuky won this race first time out for the car, Speedway 605 Irwindale CA. Check out Mosely's 4 cam ford
     

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  5. racer5c
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 2,218

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    Alex Morales Tamale Wagon, ever seen a chevy with 4 cam heads?? i remember this car well, and my Friend Jeff Smith owns it now and is restoring it
     

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  6. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,231

    nexxussian
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    Yep, there's a XK(?) Jag here tube framed with what is supposed to be the only set of the Moser 4cam heads that Moser made for the street.

    Still, I think they look better in the sprinter.:)
     
  7. indybigjohn
    Joined: May 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,714

    indybigjohn
    Member Emeritus

    Yeah, Jim, it had to be late 60s, I suppose. We used to hit a lot of those fair dates. I think this one was a Sunday afternoon. Good story. I did the crossover that day, and later in the 70s when ASA was looking to jazz up the show, Wayne Doebling, the photographer, suggested we try it. He had been at Brandenburg that day. I remember the day Roy blew up the Ayers car.

    Yes, we were talking about the Ballad of Jimmy Bryan. I've got to get it downloaded somehow.
     
  8. 8889coupe
    Joined: Nov 28, 2006
    Posts: 67

    8889coupe
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    [​IMG]i

    would anyone know what tail tank cover this is, its the only part im missing on my dads sprint car, and ive been told all different things, i know the watson tail dont fit, so any suggestions, i was told it may be a lefler, also maybe a kurtis midget, so any help would be greatly appreciated thanks Ron
     
  9. racer5c
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 2,218

    racer5c
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    doesn't look like a Leffler, they had a huge downward slope to them, maybe mcmiller will know
     
  10. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    That tail is larger than a KK Midget tank. Definitely not a Leffler. Not a Trevis either....

    It is nicely proportioned. It has the look of a Watson sprint style tail or like the Phillips(H&H Machine tool #51-Constant Hot #2).

    Do you have an idea of who built that car?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  11. 8889coupe
    Joined: Nov 28, 2006
    Posts: 67

    8889coupe
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    my old man built the car back in 1964 from the looks of things he copied a watson/ward car but modified it in some areas, it sucks because my dad has passed on and now i have questions that are unanswered, jim mann just finished putting the car all back together for me, but he didnt have a tail that would work, he tried his watson and it wasnt right, which one would you reccommend trying next
     
  12. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    Dang,that is a tough question-I doubt he would have gone to all the trouble of designing and building a buck to make his own tail.
    I am drawing a blank on who would have offered aftermarket tails in 64,though.

    I am not familiar with the Ronnie Ward built cars,are they similar to the Watson?

    Mac Miller might be the one to shed light on this one-I can rule out some(KK-Trevis,Leffler etc) but it is tougher to figure out what he DID use.
     
  13. 8889coupe
    Joined: Nov 28, 2006
    Posts: 67

    8889coupe
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    who was the the one who designed the H&H car tail, and the #2 car, its quite possible my dad had the mold, i have all the other molds and pucks,is a meskowki the same as a lefler i know he did have a mold for one of those but he lost it in a fire. i think it may be the same as Mutt Anderson's H&H car if anyone knows what his is..
     
  14. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    That H& H car was built by Phillips driven by Roger Mc Clusky .

    The black Constant Hot #2 is the same car-a real beauty!

    The Leffler and Meskowski are very similar to each other,but I think they are separate designs.
    They both slope down WAY more than the tank in the photos of your Dad`s car.

    I will post a photo of the Leffler and a Meskowski so you can see what I mean
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2008
  15. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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  16. 8889coupe
    Joined: Nov 28, 2006
    Posts: 67

    8889coupe
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    i see what you mean, do you know anyone who would have have a Rocky Phillips cover? were those covers very popular, thanks Ron
     
  17. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    Sorry,I really don`t know if they were available or not.

    Try to PM Mac Miller-he builds replica fiberglas bodies and cars,and would know.
    Maybe if you can talk to AJ Watson,he could tell you who to go to. I don`t have contact info for AJ Watson,though. Maybe Mac does or Roy 5c does.
    Another guy,although he is a metalsmith is Jerry Weeks.

    Here is mac Millers profile....
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/member.php?u=25869

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/millerracers2000/2998437344/sizes/o/

    Here is a Leffler to show you-they start higher at the front of the tank and drop off like the Meskowski.

    Here is the Phillips built car:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/millerracers2000/2998503446/sizes/l/

    Also want to say your dad`s sprinter is a great looking car and I wish you the best in getting it back together!
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  18. mac miller
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 519

    mac miller
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    from INDY

    There are three distinct, basic tail shapes used on 60s style sprint cars.
    *The Kurtis/Watson style
    *The Kuzma/Meskowski/Leffler style
    *The Don Edmunds style

    While a number of other builders "of the day" built their own tails, most were close copies of the Edmunds style.

    The tail on Mr. 8889coupe's sprint car is a Don Edmunds style, as seen on my Fike Plumbing car in the photo below.

    The Konstant Hot/H&H Tool car was built in 1962 by Jud Phillips in Cali, but spent its life in USAC. During its career it was also owned and driven by Mickey Rupp and Salt Walther.

    The original Meskowski/Leffler design was built by a guy named Ergo, who was working in Eddie Kuzma's shop in the early 60s. Wally Meskowski bought the car from Kuzma and built, maybe, 5 or 6 copies calling them "Meskowskis". Paul Leffler took over the design from Wally and built, probably 30 to 40 of them, calling them "Lefflers".
     

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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  19. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    Now that we know the basics of sprint car tail section builders in the 1960s,the big question,which I don`t know the answerto,is where can 8889Coupe find a tail that will fit his sprinter?
     
  20. mac miller
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 519

    mac miller
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    from INDY


    I have a mold for 8889coupe's tail and I have informed him that I can build one for him.
     
  21. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    That`s great news Mac!
     
  22. indybigjohn
    Joined: May 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,714

    indybigjohn
    Member Emeritus

    Nobody but nobody knows any more about these cars than Mac Miller. I followed Sprint Car racing in the 50s and 60s religiously, then tried to keep an eye on it as I slipped into stock cars, and just in the last few months have I learned a whole lot from Mac about what I was seeing in those days.
     
  23. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
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    You guys notice the BOLT ON WHEELS on this sprinter... It threw Mann and I off.. Not unheard of, but rare... and wierd to be on a car of this calliber. (everything else is correct/non-cheap)

    Ya did good having Jim put the car together Ronnie. I can't wait to see it.

    JD
     
  24. 8889coupe
    Joined: Nov 28, 2006
    Posts: 67

    8889coupe
    Member

    thanks for all the help on the tail problems, paul fortney was over my house tonight checking out the champ car and sprint car, he informed me that my dad built all his own tanks i have the one in the champ car, as you can see with the bolt on wheels, my old man was a machinist and thats all he did was make parts, i have a tank that i thought was for the sprint car but paul informed me that it was a edmunds tank and it doesnt fit my chassis, it sticks up to far above the head rest. its great talking to the old timers, paul was here for 4 hours and i heard a lot of great stories about the good old days... i also learned that my dad kept bugging watson back in the early 60's about getting a set of blueprints of the watson ward cars, this was back before they sold them i guess, but then AJ told my dad that he would sell him a set finally for 300.00 so my dad went up there to buy them, but Watson told him to keep his money because he was going to need it to build the car, that was the beginning of the Hart&Jones Sprinter.... But if you look at the watson blueprints my old man changed some things on the chassis that makes it a little different. Josh when you get time i need to have you come check out the sprinter.
     
  25. ChevyRat
    Joined: Oct 12, 2007
    Posts: 575

    ChevyRat
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    Heres one of my grandfather in 1954.


    [​IMG]
     
  26. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
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    I wonder-was he drag racing that one?
     
  27. Jim Nise
    Joined: Oct 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,140

    Jim Nise
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    Corngrower,

    back about 90 pages ago you asked about the "O" that Hiram Hillegas put on the front nerf bar.

    Every Hillegas I ever saw had that "O" which I think was just a generic way to sure up the bumper. My dads midget had it, John Pfrommers car had it, but he added a P inside it. I believe the Miracle Power car in EMMR has it as well, but i can't find a picture right now.

    I suppose it was his "non signature".
     
  28. racer5c
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 2,218

    racer5c
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    Sonny Ates info Sonny once held the sprint car track records at Salem, Dayton and Winchester--all at the same time! He broke the Winchester record 4 times. Was the last driver to win the Joe James-Pat O'Connor Memorial at Salem when it was a 100-lap race. Finished 17th in the 1969 Indy 500 as teammate to Mel Kenyon.

    You may not be aware of this, but Sonny has been battling a couple of age-related
    diseases for a few years and recently had a slight stroke. Sonny and wife Judy are spending some time with their granddaughters in the Phoenix area, and I would
    guess that Sonny would like to hear from his old racing buddies.

    private message me or e mail me if you want his address to send him a card
     
  29. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    Thanks Roy, yeah send me the info. ...and, whats the word on Voglers boy D.J.? any???

    ----------------------------


    Jim Nise.. Thanks! Thats cool. I was ust wondering.


    -----------------------------


    Ron,

    The template you sent me today IS THE CORRECT tail for your dads car. Good deal!

    ------------------------------

    Chevy Rat.. I didn't get a chance to PM you back. But I would have told you to post it here and let these guys identify it. It looks like Essex rails, which were common, Homemade body.. I agree with Buildy. It looks like its set up for drag racing in this picture.

    Cool picture, and a GREAT FAMILY HISTORY!



    JD
     
  30. jimg12
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 307

    jimg12
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    Roy,
    Please send me the info on Sonny. I traveled with Sonny most of 65 and he helped me get my first USAC midget ride. I knew he was in Henryville and had moved but I do not know where.
    Jim Graybeal
    Graybeal@bellsouth.net
     

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