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Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Hi, I have 4 photos I believe are midgets. I am posting on the vintage midget site. Any help would be great on identification, Thanks.
     
  2. Wurger
    Joined: May 27, 2011
    Posts: 131

    Wurger
    Member

    I came across these two body parts for sale with the world finally opening back up, gent dosent know any history about them other than being told they were 30’s-40’s parts when he picked them up at a yard sale many years back. The tail looks too long to be a midget, I’m thinking they are from a big car, he’s asking $800 parts are from aluminum. Any help in era or asking price would be appreciated, Id like to build off of it ( or bring it back ) but not over pay. Thanks fellas.

    IMG_7017.JPG


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  3. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,559

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    That is a nice find. And the parts look to be wrinkle free in good shape too. His asking price for the tail, nose and grill does not sound too far fetched. Take it from somebody who built one there are a LOT of man hours in there to fab.
    That is a great start on a champ car. Except for the windshield area all of the hard compound bend parts are done.
    My feeble effort (ongoing):
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. The tail and nose are from a post war Kurtis midget. There were fiberglas replacement parts that were made for Kurtis midgets. Those are quite a bit less than $800. You have original aluminum pieces, priceless! I would happily pay the $800 and run!!
    And Mr. Flyer, good start on your project.
     
  5. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,559

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

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  6. You have a great car there! Looks great .Time flies when building. Been on our 2 man sprint car for 12 years. Just chip away at it when I find period parts for her. Need a bit of body work still from rough areas then take it apart and paint it and reassemble. Just like Johnny Cash song "One piece at a time" . You will get there and have fun!!
     
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  7. Wurger
    Joined: May 27, 2011
    Posts: 131

    Wurger
    Member

    Another pic, bought the set up for $600, also had a bottom aluminum pan with it. Thanks for everyone’s input so far! Hope I did well, I’m excited! 1st performance car build coming up, I’ll be here asking a crap ton of questions!

    IMG_7024.JPG


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2021
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  8. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,550

    Fordors
    Member

    You got a great deal, looks like it also included a magnesium wheel and a throttle pedal too. Well done!
     
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  9. am looking for post several years ago re "dirt champ cars on trailers" . need page # or post #.
    i have page 605 in my log but its not there.
    thanks
    mlight9
     
  10. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,559

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Score! I wish we lived close - it would be fun to watch your build first hand and share ideas.
    Can you answer one thing for me? Is the gas pedal attached to the belly pan? I am wondering how to fit a gas pedal in - along with my size 13 driving shoe. There is very little room in my car because I'm using a transmission. I would have liked to use a cast pedal like that but I think it will take up too much room. Even though I have one I'll be using a stainless spoon for gas I'm afraid.

    BTW the louvered belly pan is also beautiful, oil stains and all.
    I think I'd make a clock out of the wheel and hang it in my shop or man cave or den.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  11. Wurger
    Joined: May 27, 2011
    Posts: 131

    Wurger
    Member

    On the way home with her now, definitely will send some pics of pedal placement/ install for ya here shortly. I’d very much enjoy sharing ideas!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  12. Wurger
    Joined: May 27, 2011
    Posts: 131

    Wurger
    Member

    Maybe these will help, I’ll send more if you need em’ looks pretty simple.
    IMG_6873.JPG IMG_6873.JPG IMG_6873.JPG



    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  13. Wurger
    Joined: May 27, 2011
    Posts: 131

    Wurger
    Member

    14 HRS got her home, is there a difference between “Champ” and “Sprint” big cars? Heard both terms on another page I’m part of. When picking it up the previous owner had an older friend measure it out who dealt with these way back and said it was way too big to be a midget, ( which makes me happy) that’s all I know so far. Thanks for the input so far!
    IMG_7035.JPG




    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  14. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,559

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    From what I can tell the line between the species is blurry. Some midgets got stretched into big cars and some champ cars also ran on dirt with a few changes. Others more knowledgeable will doubtless be able to make further distinctions.
    Thank you for the additional pics. It confirmed my fear that I'll have to go a different direction to get a gas pedal to fit. But it also bolstered my conclusion that belly pans were indeed strong enough to stand on and "stand on it."
     
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  15. MMM1693
    Joined: Feb 8, 2009
    Posts: 589

    MMM1693
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If Dean sez its a post war Kurtis midget its a pretty safe bet.
     
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  16. RAREBIKE
    Joined: Oct 17, 2006
    Posts: 468

    RAREBIKE
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How about this pedal set up? Tim
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. If it helps, our club requested we unbolt gas pedals from the belly pan floor in case it gets damaged while running jamming the throttle open. I removed mine from the floor and made a bracket that attached to the motor plate like an L bracket. It still rested on the floor of the belly pan but bolted to the motor plate so it would float. My midget bottomed out many times at rough tracks and you could feel the track under your feet!!
     
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  18. jack carroll
    Joined: Sep 24, 2018
    Posts: 1

    jack carroll

    I am new to this, does anyone have any history on C A E 35 .Thanks Jack Carroll, Australia.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  19. Little Terry
    Joined: Oct 17, 2007
    Posts: 504

    Little Terry
    Member

    I have recently acquired this car and am starting to try and learn a little bit about it. There aren't too many of these over here in the UK.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    It came over here in 2000 and was purchased from James Etter at Hershey in Pensylvania according to the little bit of history I have. It was originally fitted with a V8 (I guess V8-60), as there is a spare side panel for the RH side of the hood, with an exhaust cutout. It has an in-out box and (unbranded) quick change rear end.
    The motor is a 270 GMC with a howard intake and scintilla mag, unknown internals.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The fuel system is interesting as it looks like the mechanical pump on the motor is just being used to presurise the fuel tank rather than drawing fuel through it. I assume the hand pump is just there to prime for starting.
    I don't even know how you are supposed to push-start these things without a clutch. I guess just drop it into gear, prime the fuel, switch on the mag and push like hell?
     
  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,559

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    What a beauty.
    I hope you are able to learn more of its history and inform us.
     
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  21. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,432

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Little Terry : suggestion for starting : put in gear, push until OIL PRESSURE COMES UP, only then turn on the mag switch. That way you won't be starting on "dry" bearings & will have built fuel pressure as well.
     
  22. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 9,033

    jimmy six
    Member

    If done correct the carbs are built for alcohol or methanol. Pressure hand pump was needed to help the stock pump. The stock pump will run gasoline 3-2’s with no sweat but gasoline fan way to hot for the little radiators. That’s a really cool vintage racer..
     
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  23. Little Terry
    Joined: Oct 17, 2007
    Posts: 504

    Little Terry
    Member

    Thank you. How can I tell what fuel to run - is it just by looking at the jet size?
     
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  24. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,432

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    We might have used the stock pump to pump gasoline, but for methanol switched & used it to pump air into the tank, as the stock pump usually wouldn't pass enough volume (methanol needs approximately 2x the volume of gasoline) to feed the carbs, besides, Methanol tends to rapidly deteriorate the pump diaphragm material. If this vehicle ran Methanol(quite probable, considering the layout) the carb jets will be appreciably larger than "stock" : I would suggest carefully disassembling one of the carbs & comparing the jet diameter to whatever is listed as stock : if it's much larger, probably methanol, if close to stock, probably gasoline. ENJOY THAT BEAUTIFUL CAR!!!
     
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  25. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,165

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Yes, but more importantly, hold the outside brake lever to apply rear brakes until push vehicle gets forward momentum and then release brakes. Otherwise just pushing from a dead stop will create a huge chatter that will tear up your quick change and/ or drive line.

    Incidentally, if the car had a V8 in it at one time, it was likely a larger Ford, not a 60.
     
  26. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,165

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Most usually, the mechanical fuel pump was used to pump air into the fuel tank to pressurize it while running. The hand pump is not a primer but the initial pressurizer of the tank before engine start up, about 3-4 psi. Most cars had only the hand pump and required the driver to stroke the pump 3 or 4 times a lap.
     
  27. Little Terry
    Joined: Oct 17, 2007
    Posts: 504

    Little Terry
    Member

    Thanks guys. Carb jets are 048, so larger than I would expect for a gasoline motor running a 3x2 setup. I will get hold of some methanol and see how it runs.
    Next issue - there is no fan on the water pump and I dont know if it has been removed or was never there in the first place - does anyone have any examples of the cooling systems on these little racers?
     
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  28. Little Terry
    Joined: Oct 17, 2007
    Posts: 504

    Little Terry
    Member

    I dont suppose you could provide a photo/drawing/sketch of this kind of setup? It's something i would consider on my car if only to make it possible for me to work on/test the engine single handedly. Any help greatfully recieved.
     
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  29. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,165

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    No need for a fan as when you are running on the track your forward motion will provide the cooling air. It may be important in some cases to be certain no air entering the grille is by-passing the radiator through openings around the radiator.
     
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  30. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,165

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Be careful here. Jets in a carburetor for gasoline are sized to provide a fuel/air ratio of 14.7:1.
    Multiple carbs do not normally create a need for a jet change. Running methanol for it’s ability to handle 15:1 compression ratios without knock and it’s cooling effect on the air charge in the cylinder from it’s latent heat of vaporization, requires a 6.5:1 fuel/air ratio and much larger jets. Ethanol is 9:1
     
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