The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.
.....Have a great Christmas Tom....lets hope 2017 will be good to us all...
I remember when I was working in the late '70s and early '80's and a coworker and I both subscribed to NSSN. We would compare notes each week after reading the latest issue. At the time Dick was winning so often and NSSN had so many articles on him that we refereed to ease issue as the "Dick Trickle Gazette"
I'm looking for any info on what seems to be a 2 speed in-out box. I've looked inside and it has 2 gears and a cluster gear. It appears that you could use as a direct drive or slightly lower gear on shorter track. There are no markings as to the manufacturer but has an aluminum case. This had a flat plate to bolt up to a v8-60. Just trying to find out what I have.
Does the box in fact have a detented position of the lever where neither gear is engaged?
Any knowledge of the splined input shaft perhaps being driven by a clutch plate?
Yes, it has a detent. That is why I think it would be used in 1 gear or the other and not shifted. Also no syncro on gears and someone welded a hook on the shifter to keep it in the lower gear. The input shaft matches a model A spline.
Many of the commercial as well as home made in-out boxes utilized a Model A clutch shaft as the input. They used the 2nd-3rd sliding gear to make the straight through connection to the Model A out-put shaft with no counter gear, thus an in-out box.
Your box is possibly a one-off where somebody perhaps tried to run 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 mile tracks with the high gear and perhaps indoor with the second gear.
That thinking of course led to the incorporation of change gears in these boxes where a pair of removable over and under gears were placed in the box or an internal ring gear driven by a single sun gear that was changeable.
These were called quick change boxes or slider boxes but there was nothing quick about changing those gears as the box, when unbolted, would only move rearward to get at the gears to the point where the drive shaft would slide into the u-joint and hit the cross. This necessitated unbolting the rear axle enough to move it backwards to provide the needed clearance.
The word slider had to do with the fact that after a gear change, the whole box needed to slide up or down for proper engagement of the different set of gears or single gear just installed.
There were probably as many as 40 different manufacturers of these boxes.
That of course led to the early quick changes at the rear axle of Voelker, Pat Warren, and many others.
That being said, these boxes were generally not used on Big Cars/Sprint Cars but rather midgets in the late '30's, on into the '50's.
Thanks for your input 28dreyer, I also posted on the midget site but didn't get much info, thanks
Not much of a case for oil...20-30 laps it would have been hot...
Anyone know what happened to Rootie? I really miss his constant offerings of great pictures.
He is still around posting in the vintage shots thread almost everyday.
Connie yasnewski. (Sp). Has one of those for sale
I noticed this site is a little slow and hope no one minds if I ask a question regarding an old sprint car that I restored and researched several years ago. One question I never could find an answer to: is this car is a 94" wheel base sprint car. I am from the west coast and do not remember any cars this long. I only know of one other and that was the Fetter Aluminum Spl. I figured it must have something to do with the hills tracks where this car ran. Any help would be appreciated.
Hard to know with no picture.
Lots of champ cars became sprints. Some cut down others ran as original.
Hi Jim, This sprint car was built by Sonny Beck in 1958, he and his father both ran sprint cars in the 50's and 60's mostly in the mid-west.
The Iddings car was a long wheelbase originally. I believe it was shortened when they stopped running it in champ car races. Mac Miller would know, and probably know the heritage of your car. He pops in occasionally.
The other Beck car was much shorter wheel base. It won the first USAC race at Eldora.
That is a beautiful car. Nice restoration. I especially like the wheel combo.
I found an old picture and it was running this wheel combo in the early 60's The neat history about this car it was a first for two people. First for Glen Niebel and Don Siebert of Don Siebert Olds. It was also the first USAC sprint car with a welded roll bar.
I'm a little young to have seen this car run, but the names on the side bring back memories.
Glen Niebel and Bobby Black were both good acquaintances of mine. RIP Gentlemen.
Glad to see as someone else has already mentioned.......Joshua Shaw who started this whole open wheel thread a LONG time ago is showing as an entry for the 2017 Chili Bowl midget race this month in Oklahoma. Hope someone can give us updates if possible.
Chile Bowl Heat Races start Tuesday night and if you go to the Chile Bowl web site they will have results each day.
If you think the picture looks good, you should see it in person. Just for grins, Bob,show them the other side too!
Hi Doug and Thank You for the complement. The other side of the car was restored for the builder and how it ran from 1958 thru 1961 with Bud Tinglestad doing most of the driving. One thing I did not mention was this car still has the Glen Niebel engine in it with the Niebel build numbers. I tried to get the build spec's but the family told me that the files were gone when they got there.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned but one of Mac Miller's (AKA McGriff) roadsters is featured in the current issue of Hot Rod magazine that's on the newsstands now. This is the car that has run at Bonneville for several years in pursuit of a class record. Various engine issues have kept them from a record so far but 2017 is a new year.
Here's a link to the story:
Regarding the Sonny Beck sprint car, Am I correct in thinking this car had an Oldsmobile engine in it in 1963/64.
Sonny's father's car was Offy powered at that time, maybe was a stretched midget, and I think that was the car that won the race at Eldora. Any corrections appreciated.
I remember seeing the Iddings car at Heidelberg on the dirt,,probably 1960,in a Sunday afternoon USAC show,driven by Bob Cleberg...the announcer discussed at length how the car could race as either a sprint or a champ car,as the wheelbase was adjustable.....
You are correct, the Harold Beck car was a stretched midget with help from his son Sonny somewhere around 1957 it was stretched into a sprint car with a flat head engine. Around 1957-58 while Sonny was building his sprint car his dad found a 220 Offy and put it into his sprint car. Both cars started out with Flathead's and ran AARC in 1958 both cars had there new engines 1959 Harold's #11 with an Offy and Sonny's #7 with a 324 Olds. Ronnie Duman and several others drove for dad and Bud Tingelstad drove for Sonny. Sonny sold the car in 1961 to Paul Mead and Paul pulled the Olds and replaced it with the Chevy in late 1962. I found it racing at Terre Haute on June 16 1963 with a chevy #47, Bobby Black driving. Started 15 and Finished 9th. Harold's Offy did win the first USAC race at Eldora in 62 with Stan Bowman doing the driving. It was known as the little offy that could. Not to take anything away from Stan, but it was raining and the track was heavy mud, the race was called at 25 laps. A win is a win
Stan Bowman was held in high regard. He was who Brawner wanted to replace Hulse when he got hurt at New Bremen. But fate stepped in. Enter Mario Andretti.
My first job in racing (at 14 years old) was " stooging" on the #93 IDDINGS SPL. This car was built in 1959 with a 96 inch wheelbase and a 220 OFFENHAUSER engine. It was raced in USAC as, both, a champ car and a sprint car. After the '61 season, USAC made owner, Henry Meyer, choose which class he wanted to race in, champ or sprint, so Henry chose the sprint division and shortened the car to an 88 inch Wheelbase and replaced the OFFY with a 305 CHEVY engine.
This car raced in the USAC sprint division through the 1973 season.
Through the years this car was driven by Bobby Marshman, Don Branson, Jim Hemmings, Allen Crowe, Roger McCluskey, Bob Mathauser, Chuck Engle, Sam Sessions, Bobby Unser, Al Unser, Bud Randall, Buzz Gregory, Norm Brown, Butch Wilkerson and Sonny Ates.
The car won five USAC features on both dirt and pavement and held track records at Dayton, Winchester and Salem. Branson and Crowe won features at Eldora and Ates won at Winchester and Salem. Allen Crowe was fatally injured in the car at New Bremen, next race after winning at Eldora.
Owner and builder, Henry Meyer, had a aircraft machine shop in Dayton, Ohio, which did business with Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Consequently, Henry had access to magnesium and titanium materials that few other guys could get their hands on. Henry made his own gun drilled, titanium bolts, magnesium body panels, etc. The car also featured coil spring suspension.
In its original 1959 spec, it weighed less than 1200 pounds.
Sponsors, Howard and John Iddings operated a successful auto parts and auto glass business in Greenville, Ohio.
The IDDINGS AUTO PARTS AND GLASS SPL #93 is currently on permanent display in the Garst Museum in Greenville, Ohio.
A couple more comments about the car….
The car was either the fastest car out there or the most dangerous, depending on who was driving. With the coil springs and rather ineffective shocks, back then, the car had to be driven hard. For drivers, who jack up and down on the throttle, it was like a pogo stick….. It needed the modern multi adjustable shocks.
I think it was 1960 when Bob Marshman was driving the car in a champ car race at Trenton. He flipped the car onto the fence and put a dent in the roll bar, That dent is still there.
mac miller in INDY
Here is a great photo of A.J.Watson, in my shop checking out the construction of the Bonneville car. Also, the official team photo with A.J. directly above the roll cage.
A.J. really liked this car and stopped by my shop, at least, once a week to watch the build of the car.
He told me that, even as a young hot rodder in SoCal, he had never been involved in dry lakes or Bonneville land speed racing.
Separate names with a comma.