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Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,980

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    I don't have any answers to the question, Easter, but that is a nice pic. Tom York in Warren Nulls' roadster, Rollie Beale in the Alfater, and Dean is looking good in that knit firesuit.
     
  2. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    There are similarites but differences also. Of course cars got changed often as they went through different owners and such, so it's really hard to say for sure. These may make it a little easier to compare:
     

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  3. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    I'm unclear if the OP was looking for info on the car in the foreground or the 69 in the background :confused: But I agree with oldtom69, the # 69 appears to be the McDonald car, though "Chevyized" in his pic.
     

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  4. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    Finally made some progress on my chevy II midget. I Re did the injectors with larger nozzles, reset barrel valve etc. It started right up with the on board starter and ran Ok. It is a brand new motor that has not been broken in yet. The problem is now it started to over heat with a head temp of around 280 within a minute or two from starting it at 50 degrees out side. Plugs are brown to black so I don't think it is very lean and the mag is set at 16 degrees for easy starting. Water pump is pumping. Car was not moving so no air going over the radiator but it still seems like it should not get that hot that quick.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Neil
     
  5. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Black plugs? what fuel are you burning?
     
  6. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    Gas not alcohol.
     
  7. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Yeah, you're going to need alky. I doubt a lil' ol' midget radiator is going to keep it cool on gas.
     
  8. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    I knew alcohol ran cooler I didn't know it was that dramatic of a difference. I picked gas to make maintenance easier. If I have to go to alc at least the change over is not that big of deal.


    Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
     
  9. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    It all comes down to BTUs and the amount of coolant/area to extract them. You might try a high volume squirrel cage fan blowing through the radiator for static testing but I think you're gonna need to run alky under load regardless.
     
  10. J.D.W.
    Joined: Oct 31, 2011
    Posts: 9

    J.D.W.
    Member

    Thanks....I am trying to find out about the car my dad is in. I can see a number 7 on the tail I think? I showed the picture to Bob Trostle and he knew the 69 car but not sure about the car my dad is in. If anyone has any ideas it would be Great...I am still trying how to figure out how to post pictures without being a PDF file. I have a lot of pictures over the years of his racing days. I want to learn as much as I can about my Dad because I was young when we went places and it is kinda fuzzy sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  11. gninc
    Joined: Jun 13, 2008
    Posts: 25

    gninc
    Member

    BZNEIL, everybody's advise is correct, but before you change over maybe try to bump the timing up to a more normal level, now you know that it starts and runs. Timing that retarded can make it run hot. But first I'm assuming there is no advance in the mag, and so be sure how much advance is in the mag if any. Try it, Glenn
     
  12. easter
    Joined: Nov 25, 2010
    Posts: 554

    easter
    Member

    Rootie - Thanks for the comments and the photo comparison. Being the #64 car had some history, I figured someone may know the original builder and maybe the same guy built the #7 car. Maybe they're the same car. I don't know. My dad drove the #64 car at Dayton once and set fast time, but it was mainly driven by Bob Pratt and Dean Mast. I love listening to you guys discuss the history of the cars on this thread.

    Mercury - You're right, that is a great photo. I always liked the Little 500 "Front Row" photo. Dean is looking sweet in that sweater. Rollie looks like a giant in that Alfater car. I first saw those two guys race at Midvale, OH back in the early 60's when I was only 6 or 7. They were OK on dirt, but on asphalt they were always up front.
     
  13. 32STUPRES
    Joined: Nov 9, 2008
    Posts: 360

    32STUPRES
    Member

    Hey Josh, Bill and I just returned from the Hot Rod Homecoming in Pomona, CA. Is the blue #14 that is now in the NHRA Museum the same car that you restored and had at Milwaukee last year? There was no signage, but I thought that was the car you had restored..See ya at Indy this year...from what we know, will be 20 minute driving sessions on Thursday, Friday and Saturday!! Bill should have the redone Autolite in it's '62 livery as the Mid Continent Securities Special (#14)...It's looking great as would expect in the Akin fashion...Joe
     

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  14. Blacki-Suede
    Joined: May 19, 2008
    Posts: 202

    Blacki-Suede
    Member

    The 71 car is obviously a Dizz Wilson car. Dizz's cars pretty much looked the same for decades. The man had the knack of building the most competitive cars, with the least of resources. Back before 1-800 Racing took over. Track maybe Eldora.

    Blacki-Suede

    ''Life's tough, pilgrim, and it's even tougher if you're stupid.''-- John Wayne
     
  15. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Minn. State Fair 1961. Johnny White at the wheel.
     
  16. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,980

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

     
  17. unassembled
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 81

    unassembled
    Member
    from San Diego

    Hi all,

    Can anyone help me identify this axle?

    Thanks!

    UPDATE!

    It's 45 1/2" end-to-end at the top of the king pin boss - 47" at the bottom of the boss.
    The king pin boss inside diameter is 5/8" - Top of the boss to the lowest part of the V is 5".
    Tube diameter is 2"
     

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    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  18. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,157

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    It's unassembled



    sorry about that, couldn't resist.
     
  19. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Looks more like a drag car axle than a typical oval track axle. Width, KP diam. and tube diam. would go a long way to help identifying what it was intended for.
     
  20. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    Thanks to everybody for all the help, suggestions and information! I could not have got this far without this thread!

    As far as my cooling issue I have lots of things to look into. I am going to probably switch to alky, and if I want to use the on board starter I am going to have to add a mechanical advance unit to my Mag. I will get to those but I am going to tackle some coolant plumbing issues first.

    With some advice from many of you I believe I am getting an air bubble in the head, my fill location is just about even with the top of the head and that is to close. I also have a single 3/8" hose from the head to the radiator. This is how the existing radiator was set up but I think That might be to small.

    Here is my new plan:

    Here is my new cooling plan. I have an aluminum overflow with a 1/4 pipe fitting towards the top and a 3/8 fitting towards the bottom. I am going to mount this with the cap even with the top of the valve cover. That is as high as I can get it and still fit under the hood. Going to run a 1/2" pipe 4 way cross out of the head and add a 1/2" pipe bung to the radiator. Out of the cross I will have a 1/2" hose straight through to the radiator, I will have a 3/8" hose from the top of the cross to the top of the overflow can to carry air bubbles up and out, and the temp tube in the bottom cross. Then it will have a 3/8" hose from the bottom of the can to the radiator to fill the system.

    Does this sound reasonable?
    Thanks
    Neil
     
  21. unassembled
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 81

    unassembled
    Member
    from San Diego

    I am getting an air bubble in the head... Art's having the same problem!

    couldn't resist! LOL
     
  22. racer5c
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 2,218

    racer5c
    Member

    With some advice from many of you I believe I am getting an air bubble in the head, my fill location is just about even with the top of the head and that is to close. I also have a single 3/8" hose from the head to the radiator. This is how the existing radiator was set up but I think That might be to small.



    Jack up the front of the car so the cap is the highest point when you bleed it, OR make an aluminum or stainless solid top hose and at the highest point weld a -3 fitting in it to bleed it, when all the air is out cap the fitting. OR you could get serious about it and build a swirl pot.
     
  23. trentesept
    Joined: Mar 15, 2008
    Posts: 120

    trentesept
    Member
    from Australia

    Hi from Down Under, I dont know what mag you are using on your project , but this is how we put in a mechanical "retard to start" on our Offy with an on board starter.
    If it might help , you can PM me for the drawings
    Cheers Greg
     

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  24. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    Thanks for the advice. I am running a standard vertex mag. I was already toying with the idea of a lever to move the whole mag after start up. Seeing yours makes sense to only move the points plate. I am a little nervous about moving the whole mag and the mag coming loose out of the block. If it comes to that it would probably be better to add the centrifugal advance inside the mag.

    My plan for an overflow hit a big snag, hood hugs the motor to tight and I can not put it where it needs to be. I have run out of over the counter solutions so I am going to have to make a custom filler neck/expansion tank/thermostat housing thing. I am not the best aluminum tig welder but the whole point of this project was to sharpen my fabricating skills and do absolutely as much as possible so it may take a couple of tries but that is the new plan. Going to solder a new larger bung into the radiator also.

    I googled images of radiator swirl pots. Those things are pretty cool. I'll have to see how my welding goes!
     
  25. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    Neil,
    does your car have a one piece hood/cowl like a Kurtis? I know that you have posted plenty of pix but I can't remember and digging back through the thread will take more time than I have. If it does is it possible to mount a fill pot under the front edge of the dash so it is higher than everything else in the cooling system.

    Roo
     
  26. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    Roo, by the way, That nose you made for the Joe Kerr modified was absolutely beautiful!!!

    I looked at putting it there last night but there is not a lot of room, because of the fuel lines, fuel shut off valve, and throttle linkage.

    The pictures make it seem like there is more room than there is. You can see my current set up here. Older pics but it is basically the same. I may just use some fittings to raise what I have and add an expansion tank.

    Nice feet right?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  27. Rootsgroup
    Joined: Jan 26, 2008
    Posts: 58

    Rootsgroup
    Member
    from Indiana

    I assume that when you fire it, you're leaving the spark off until the starter winds up the engine as much as it can. Then flipping the ignition switch to light the plugs. As if you were getting push started. That can overcome the need to run fixed advance.

    Has anybody got any experience running E85 in their vintage car? I'm putting a plan together for a vintage Dirt Champ car and wondering if that might not be the way to go. Hope I'm not hi-jacking your thread, sorry.
     
  28. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    I am starting the car that way, the starter is just not strong enough with the advance set past 20 degrees.

    I am also curious about E85. I heard it can be just as corrosive as Alky but who knows.

    What champ car are you putting together?
     
  29. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,440

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Regarding air pockets in cylinder heads:

    I have added a Schrader valve at the top rear corner of my drag cars that use lay-down radiators to bleed the air out of the head. They are available at heating supply stores with a 1/8 NPT thread. That way I can occasionally bleed off the head gasket leakage that sometimes accumulates in the head also.
     
  30. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,157

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    E85 was used in a restored Ranger powered big car up our way over 10 years ago. It had a Hilborn injection set-up and he used the original methanol nozzles and only needed to use a bigger pill to lean it out a bit.

    The idea was to enhance the starting and benefit from the cooling of the alcohol in this air cooled aircraft engine. Compression stock was 6.5:1 so that was not a factor.
     

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