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Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Now that one is sweet. :) I suspect that in 1946 G.B. was still in the middle of rebuilding after the war and resources were in short supply. You really have to give them credit that they even got to Indy when they were dodging Nazi rockets and bombs not all that long before.
     
  2. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Hiawatha called and wants the front end of his canoe back. :rolleyes:
     

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  3. Rootie......the Lagonda in my photo was built in 1935,and I suspect the ''Indy'' car was an early model revamped for the race. Here are a few more photos,
     

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  4. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    La-(color me gone)-da.
     

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  5. Linda570
    Joined: Feb 25, 2013
    Posts: 8

    Linda570
    Member
    from usa

    Awesome thread Josh, I gotta see the Sprint car since paint![​IMG]
     
  6. trentesept
    Joined: Mar 15, 2008
    Posts: 120

    trentesept
    Member
    from Australia

    Gentlemen, today I removed the front axle from the Shilala.
    It is either cad plated ,or has a gold type finish similar to Dow #7 that you see inside Halibrands when you strip the tyres off and which many people try to replicate with paint when they restore Hallys.
    When I turned the axle over I found this stamp in the middle of the axle on the low side.
    A six diamond sided square with "USAC 7" in the middle.
    Total size , 1/2" square, so quite small.
    Does anybody know what this might signify??
    Scrutineering or tech ispection by USAC inspector #7 ??
    Passed something to do with regulation #7 ??
    Seventh car in the scrutineering queue??
    Axle fitted to car #7 ??
    Car registered for 1957, or 1967 ??
    I really dont have a clue
    One of you guys will no doubt know .
    Indybigjohn??
    By the way, even though the Lagonda is British, it was named after a river in the US as the owner was an American
    Cheers Greg
     

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  7. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Probably a Magnaflux test stamp. The 7 probably signifies authorized test station #7
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  8. trentesept
    Joined: Mar 15, 2008
    Posts: 120

    trentesept
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks Rootie, was it a pre-requisite for USAC events to have certain components Magnafluxed??
    Two of my Indy cars have Magnaflux decals ,and some wheels have USAC stamps and Zyglo stamps
    I know that after a certain date it became mandatory for all fasteners on Indy entrants to be sourced from the Premier Fasteners company and as such all bolts on my two '67 cars are headstamped "Supertanium".
    The Shilala is clearly not an Indy car , but it too has "Supertanium "bolts, were they mandatory for all USAC events as well??
    Many thanks for your input
    Cheers Greg
     
  9. KK500
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 355

    KK500
    Member

  10. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Yes, USAC (and other sanctions) required annual mag testing on critical steering/suspension parts. They had various stations (race shops, machine shops etc.) around the country that were authorized to do the tests.
     
  11. Rootie...you are the font of all knowledge.....respect sir.....
     
  12. trentesept
    Joined: Mar 15, 2008
    Posts: 120

    trentesept
    Member
    from Australia

    Good Morning , its another day down here, just over the longest hot spell for 155 years!!
    After yesterdays revelation on the cross spring front end, I have dismantled the rear this morning.
    The Shilala has 41 1/2" parrallel torsion bars controlling a Culver City small tapered end axle Halibrand.
    Does anybody possibly have torsion bars of this length that are surplus to requirements and that might be stiffer than .720" in the wasted portion of the bar??
    I would be very grateful if they could contact me.
    Jim, (KK 500) very sorry to see that the Rich Hadley collection is coming up for auction, he was a very nice and genuine guy.
    Someone from this thread should follow up on the really nice cars that are being offered.
    Follow the links on KK500 post #20328 if you are keen to find a good midget, rail car , big car ,or sprinter, there are some crackers there!!
    Cheers Greg
     
  13. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 981

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    No, they were not mandatory. They were FREE. Just about any race team (and especially the Indianapolis based ones) or any mechanic working for an Indy team could pretty much get more than enough free bolts from these guys to put together several cars. I know guys from thirty years ago that still have garage shelves full of the things which were given to them for decades. And they weren't bad bolts as such. But they probably weren't up to SAE Grade 8 standards either. They tended to be on the brittle side. I've heard a few horror stories over the years about their use which I won't go into here. And I continue to be amazed at how many of them are still in use on vintage cars even today. Thankfully, modern race cars all use mil spec NAS fasteners which are far superior to the old bolts. :)
     
  14. racer5c
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 2,218

    racer5c
    Member

    Randy, actually they are WAY above grade 8 standards, and they are almost impossible to drill for safety wire. I have several thousand still
     
  15. designs that work
    Joined: Aug 29, 2005
    Posts: 411

    designs that work
    Member

    One of the other Aussie restorers with a Shalia(Sp), if I remember correctly found his chassis number on the bottom of the front axle.
     
  16. trentesept
    Joined: Mar 15, 2008
    Posts: 120

    trentesept
    Member
    from Australia

    "designs that work" , that was me .
    The other one down here has a later replacement axle.
    The Number on the axle was explained to me by Van from Vancraft , Gasoline Alley, Indianapolis before his passing.
    He was the guy that made all the grills for George Shilala's cars, every one of which is different and an easy way of identifying the cars.
    Far from being chassis numbers ,they were George's insurance policy.
    He put coded numbers on the axles and kept a "little black book"
    The numbers told him the identity of the employee that did the welding on the car , and if there were any failures , or comebacks ,he knew who to tap on the shoulder.
    More work today had me dismantle the front spring .
    What a beautiful piece of work .
    Set , ground and polished leaves,with stunning tapered drop points and finely rounded and polished edges where any spring requires the most work to allieviate stress concentrators.
    Nicely stamped HS, which I can only assume stands for "Hollywood Spring" as this firm was known to provide Frank Kurtis with springs whilst George was his Foreman.
    Golly, there could be a grill in that!!
    Anyway ,I have taken up enough space and will butt out for a while .
    Thanks all for your input and interest.
    cheers Greg
     
  17. re #20335, does the black book still exist?????
    how about some pix of those grills?
    mlight9
     
  18. oso64
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 510

    oso64
    Member

    ok, that is cool.i know ivan.he owns a machine shop here in bakersfield now.great guy, tons of wild storys.my old boss and i used to drag race and ivan helped tune and did all our machine work.i am currently building a clone of his afx nova with my old boss bob kopp.i dont know if anyone knows, ivan won the 1964 winter nats in comp elim.ivan has raced just about everything, even boats after he flipped the nova.its cool to see his history still out there.-Jimmy-
     
  19. donut29
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,518

    donut29
    Member
    from canton MI

    We picked up this chassis at the Hadly estate auction. Anyone know who and when this was built? What would have powered it? And anything else you may know about it.

    Thanks
     

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  20. racer5c
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 2,218

    racer5c
    Member

    what were things selling for? the open wheel stuff
     
  21. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Homemade, possibly reworked early Chevy rails, built in the 50s-early 60s would be my guess. The drilled brackets look like the may match the front of a early SBC. Easy enough to measure and compare.
     
  22. donut29
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,518

    donut29
    Member
    from canton MI


    It's pretty nice for a homemade job and its only 20'' wide at the front motor plate. If it is homemade the guy was one hell of a fabricator and welder. All the aluminum body panels and belly pan is also very well done.
     
  23. mac miller
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 524

    mac miller
    Member
    from INDY


    HA! That's kind of an odd statement. Where did you get the idea that nice cars can not be homemade???.... Back in the 50s and early 60s, there were no Gambler factories or Beast factories cranking out dozens of assembly line sprint cars like they do now.
    Frankly, the greatest sprint cars in history were "homemade jobs". Its not about where they were built, its about who built them.... well, at least, it used to be.

    mac miller in INDY
     
  24. gearguy
    Joined: Jan 27, 2010
    Posts: 286

    gearguy
    Member

    An EXCELLENT point, Mac Miller.
    I have friends who are excellent car builders and their cars are the equal of any "factory built" racers currently available. People forget where the classics came from. The equipment in the Miller/Offenhauser shop was very typical of high school/tech school shop of the day. It was design and operator skill level that set them apart. We've come a long ways from the days when everyone in racing had a father/uncle/brother with a machine shop in their basement and on the balance that is not PROGRESS.
    My current driver, his father, and I laid out and drilled a motor plate yesterday. We're proud to be passing our limited skill set along to a young guy who is eager to learn.
    Unless people make the effort racing will continue its march toward spec cars in arrive and drive series. I tell people you aren't really a racer until you bleed on a few homemade parts. We have two first aid kits in our shop. The results aren't always pretty the first time but eventually they will be something we are proud of.

    I think the chassis in question is mid 1940s not 50s/60s. By 1948 guys were sold on tube chassis and the rail frame wasn't widely used in new construction. I understand rail frame cars could still be competitive in later years but is was actually easier to build with tubing.

    Chuck Schultz
    Winfield, Illinois
     
  25. donut29
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,518

    donut29
    Member
    from canton MI

    Like I said The guy must have been one hell of a fabricator!!! And I respect anyone that can do work like this

    Any idea of who made it? I'd like to find out any info on it
     
  26. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Could be, but there were still plenty lowbuck/ homebuilders using rails in the 50s. The big money USAC guys were all into tube frames then but a lot of the small time local guys still were using rails. The Chevy frames were popular as they were straight without any bow and still readily available though heavy and about as easy to bulild as falling off a log.
     
  27. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,985

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    I'm admittedly not the sharpest tool in the shed, but not seeing any roll bar mounts, and if the front mounts are for a small block chevy, would that date the frame to somewhere between 1955-58? I also was wondering if it might have been built to rules for a specific track, that required stock, or stock type, frame rails.
     
  28. deuce354
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 304

    deuce354
    Member

    Couldn't make it the Hadley estate auction due some recent surgery, I was going to have a friend bid on it for me but he coundnt go at the last minute. I was really interested in the V8-60 pre war rail midget, If anybody knows who bought it, i would be interested in buying it. It was grey primered, red steel wheels & frame. Anybody have the prices that what the cars went for? Thanks Deek
     
  29. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    Of all the cars there THAT chassis you pictured was the one I thought had the most "hope". It's pretty cool.
     
  30. LEE GREENAWALT
    Joined: Mar 3, 2010
    Posts: 322

    LEE GREENAWALT
    Member

    Just got a new toy, a Ohlsson & Rice tether car found it local, needed a couple things to make it right, like a windshield, nerf bars and radius rods, now I just need a driver and I'm good to go. enjoy!
     

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