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Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 968

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    And Unser family friend Johnny Capels got the last win in the car when it was known as the Al Unser Chevy. That was at a 1968 USAC show at Hamburg, NY. I had no idea how old the car was but according to John it was originally built in 1954 although he wasn't clear about who actually built it. I've heard that it might have been Roger McCluskey but I really don't know. Does anyone here know more about the car's origins?

    http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/race.php?raceid=10786
     
  2. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    I believe McCluskey and Hank Arnold built it for Ron Purvis (Eloy Cotton Chemical Assn.- whatever that is?) but can't say what year for sure though. Probably after 1955 as I think it always had a SBC, but not positive. (?)
     
  3. tcmason
    Joined: Oct 20, 2011
    Posts: 10

    tcmason
    Member

    I am looking for information about my dads roadster and sprint car raced in the South Bend area between 1948 and 1954 The roadster was a brown 24 T, number 7, with a Tom Cherry 296 Flathead , Navarro heads and 2-deuce manifold. The sprint car was build form the roadster in 1950 or 51, red car number 17 with a dryer tail. The cars were driven by various drivers including Dick Good and Dick Geyer. My son and I are looking to reconstruct the Sprint car we have many of the original parts and are looking for pictures and info concerning the cars. Both cars were raced competitively at New Paris, South Bend Motor Speedway and at Play-land park. Thanks Terry
     
  4. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 848

    guffey

    ruby bruce kraft (2).jpg

    I may be beating a dead horse but I thought I would post this photo that Doug Emery sent me of the Bruce Kraft roadster in 1970
     
  5. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 968

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    The car in this picture still has its Indianapolis tail and fuel tank intact with no modifications. This photo could also help in further identification because not every car had the lower fuel tank inlet along with the double cap fuel lids on the top. Through 1964 the refueling tanks in the 500 were all pressurized so some teams started connecting the refueling hoses to a Buckeye (there really was a company) connection toward the bottom of the tank while opening the top caps as a vent. The two holes also provided a good visual indication as to when the tank was actually full. Certain teams used them but many others did not and continued to simply fill under pressure in one of the two openings in the top of the tank.

    At any rate if you could find a good left side shot of the Christiansen car you might be able to get some real confirmation. Although the lower inlet might not be on the car in the early years it might have been added later on as the low inlet fad caught on until gravity refueling was mandated starting in 1965. BTW, the original roll bar in the supermodified photo (to which the cage has been attached) looks exactly like the one that was on the Christiansen car in some of the photos that I have seen. :)
     
  6. wvjimmie
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 18

    wvjimmie
    Member


    I think that car was driven at one time by Armond Holly down south.
     

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  7. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 848

    guffey

    "The car in this picture still has its Indianapolis tail and fuel tank intact with no modifications. This photo could also help in further identification because not every car had the lower fuel tank inlet along with the double cap fuel lids on the top. Through 1964 the refueling tanks in the 500 were all pressurized so some teams started connecting the refueling hoses to a Buckeye (there really was a company) connection toward the bottom of the tank while opening the top caps as a vent. The two holes also provided a good visual indication as to when the tank was actually full. Certain teams used them but many others did not and continued to simply fill under pressure in one of the two openings in the top of the tank. "

    " At any rate if you could find a good left side shot of the Christiansen car you might be able to get some real confirmation. Although the lower inlet might not be on the car in the early years it might have been added later on as the low inlet fad caught on until gravity refueling was mandated starting in 1965. BTW, the original roll bar in the supermodified photo (to which the cage has been attached) looks exactly like the one that was on the Christiansen car in some of the photos that I have seen. " quoted IndyRJC

    guffeystuff 001.jpg

    This is a photo of a page in the Clymer 62 500 yearbook. It is about the best I could find of the lower fuel filler. That is Ruby with his feet on the tire. I can't find to many cars in 62 with that lower tank filler.
    It also shows that mag body panel pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  8. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    FWIW- it really doesn't solve or explain anything, but in a earlier post someone said the Barney C. built/Ruby car may have eventually become the New England Speedshop Spl. Here's a shot of Dee Jones trying to knock down the fence at Trenton in that car 1964.
     

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  9. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 848

    guffey

    The hole in the cowl is there. I am wondering if it might be some adjustment for weight jacking?

    ruby Leonard_69 (1).jpg

    Did it go from Ed Stone to Jim Leonard in Elmira?
     
  10. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    The small cowl scoops were fairly common on the Indy roadsters. I believe they were just for added airflow to the driver.
     
  11. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 848

    guffey

    guffeystuff 026.jpg oswb0027.jpg

    This is a hole behind and below the scoop. It shows up in 61 62 63 64 and 69 ?
     
  12. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    The hole is right around the master cylinders, could it have been an early "balance bar" or proportioning valve setup?
     
  13. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Oh, OK. I see what you mean now, but dunno (?) Not anywhere near the T-bars, so I don't think it would be for weight jacking. The nearest component would be the steeing gear though I've never seen anything like that related to the steering. Maybe indyjrc knows. :confused:
     
  14. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 968

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    Notice also that this car has a rear view mirror on the left side of the cockpit. You can see it in the cockpit. Rear view mirrors were very rare on Indy roadsters; almost non-existent.

    Also, in some of the other photos you can see that Christiansen has a very un-Watson like nose on the car. It's much more rounded at the front with different contours and doesn't have the two separate holes or the shark look. And I'm pretty sure that it's aluminum because it looks slightly rippled and hand built with the way the light hits the paint. Maybe it was magnesium as well? The tail may well be too since it looks a little unconventional as well. This makes sense because the Travelon Trailer car that Christiansen built for Ernie Ruiz also originally had a very different and wide open nose and slightly different tail from a Watson. This all changed after Ed Elisian was killed in the car and Danny Oakes rebuilt it more along the lines of a Watson.
     
  15. kasultana
    Joined: Oct 27, 2012
    Posts: 162

    kasultana
    Member

    Thanks I'll start to track down some history on Armond as I don't know him. Can you tell me where the picture of the car was taken and about when? Thanks
     
  16. 4everblue
    Joined: Apr 13, 2007
    Posts: 364

    4everblue
    Member

    http://www.coastal181.com/nlm-working-April-2005/tearoffs-2.htm

    I hope this link works, it's a little history on Armond Holley from the "tearoff" section of the Coastal 181 site.
    That picture of the 1A car with the dark paint job can be no older than 1973 going by the trucks in the background.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  17. Paul Martens
    Joined: Feb 25, 2010
    Posts: 15

    Paul Martens
    Member


    I have a source in Oklahoma City rebuild mine. They are a common water pump rebuild shop. They do not care what it is off of. Probably a shop like this in your area. On deals like this I call the first service I see in the phone book. I know there is a chance they will not have the services I need, but they get calls every day and will know who does. Let me know if I can help you.

    Paul
     
  18. Paul Martens
    Joined: Feb 25, 2010
    Posts: 15

    Paul Martens
    Member

    The OKC shop would probably sell you the parts but the trick is in press fixtures that will not damage the parts. I just let him take that risk. He also rebuilds my Cummins / McGurk pumps. Not the fastest service but I am never pushing a deadline.
    I have some rebuilt. Exchange?

    Paul
     
  19. hopkins1
    Joined: Jul 7, 2009
    Posts: 72

    hopkins1
    Member
    from bedford pa

  20. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 848

    guffey

    I don't know but it doesn't show up in the photos of the car in 1962 or later that I can see. ?
     
  21. trentesept
    Joined: Mar 15, 2008
    Posts: 120

    trentesept
    Member
    from Australia

    Gentlemen, a couple of technical questions, unsolveable from down here.
    Text from a 1953? article by Lester Nehamki (publication unknown to me ) titled "Racings Big Wheel" about Ted Halibrand.
    In the text it states that last years runners, presumably 1952, were fitted with the new 7" wide rear wheels.
    Can anyone enlighten me as to the progression in width , time wise, from this width in 1952 until the tyre wars generated the 14" rims for 1969?
    I have 8" wide rims which I believe are dated 1960.
    Could it be possible that the rim widths expanded 1" over the intervening 8 years between '52 and '60?
    The next chronological set I have are 10" and clearly dated 1966 with dates, Magnaflux or Zyglo stamps and Indy approval stamps.
    The final set are also dated and stamped 1969 and are 14" wide.
    The second question relates to wheel bases.
    Can someone tell me what the wheelbase regulations were for Sprint Cars under the various sanctioning bodies, USAC, IMSA, CRA etc
    In restoring my Shilala sprinter I would rather have these dimensions correct rather than not.
    Many thanks ,Cheers Greg
     

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  22. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 968

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    I believe that was where a hand brake lever was to go. In 1961 and, I believe, in 1962 USAC came up with a mandatory requirement for a backup hand brake system for the 500. However, it doesn't seem to have been very strongly enforced. Maybe all you had to do was put on the hand lever long enough to get through tech and then it came off. I'm a little unclear on that. And I'm also a little unclear on when the rule came to be. I've heard that it was supposed to be in place in 1961 but I'm just not sure. I do know that the hand brake was supposed to be on the cars for the 1962 500 but for some reason not many had one. However, if you look at the winner's photo of Rodger Ward in Watson's car taken the day after the race you will see the long brake lever in the same location as the lower hole in the Christiansen photo. OTOH, Parnelli Jones was supposedly racing under the same rules but he clearly didn't have a backup brake system in place in 1962 since that was year he was driving over tires in the pits and scraping the wall to get stopped when he came in for tires and fuel. At any rate the rule was apparently completely gone in 1963.
     
  23. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 848

    guffey

    Thanks Indyrjc! What do you think that other thing is behind the air scoop?
     
  24. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    I guess this begs the question... Is the 1961 Grim car the same 1962 Ruby car ???
     

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  25. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 848

    guffey

    According to the Littleton book the Roadsters of Indianapolis and what I can find in photos from the speedway archives, that would be a yes. There are some details that are different from 61 and 62 but most can be explained as racing changes.?
     
  26. chrys58
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 4

    chrys58
    Member

    unassembled Five Manufacturing Co. rebuilds the leman water pumps. his name is daniel f. lukasiewicz. 307 A Bryant St. Ojai, Ca. 1-805-640-1055 Fax:1-805-640-8424 He rebuilt two of my pumps. did a nice job reasonable
     
  27. chrys58
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 4

    chrys58
    Member

    Daniel bought all of JFK's parts for Leman and JFK pumps.
     
  28. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Yeah, I kinda think it may be also.....sorta. I'm thinking that between 61 and 62 Barney C. reworked it, adding the rear kickups, dual shocks...etc. which would explain the 62 magazine artical and also explain why it continued to be listed as a Watson through its USAC years as opposed to it being listed a 'Christensen' like the Travelon car, of which he did the initial fabrication. Just speculation on my part though.
     
  29. Bill Chadbourne
    Joined: Nov 28, 2011
    Posts: 71

    Bill Chadbourne
    Member
    from Sonora Ca.

    Hi trentesept: In the late 60's and early 70's the wheel base for most sanctioning body's was between 84" to 90", and the wheel width maximum was 12" for sprint cars. Bill
     
  30. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Not many early 60s roadsters had a hand brake from what I have found, but it appears the 63 Forbes car is one exception at least. As far as the purpose of the upper hole goes, I would venture a guess that, given it is located at about the C/G point, it could be a reciever for a jack for right side only tire changes. (?)
     

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