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Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Joshua Shaw, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,711

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Very interesting discussion on this car. It looks like the steering ratio was also slowed down - a modification alone which could have significantly changed the driving characteristics.

    I enjoy these discussions about cars which did not work. Those are the ones from which we learn a lot.
     
  2. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Here's Halls accounting of the deal with Watson:
     

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  3. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 972

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    Great story. And Norm did pass his Rookie Test in the car and drive it in practice before Homeier got the ride.

    BTW, as I mentioned earlier Hall was pretty sharp in business and was one of the founders of Jet Delivery Service in Los Angeles somewhere around 1950. At one point he drove a midget sponsored by Jet in SoCal. I've had people tell me he even ran it at Gilmore but I'm just sure about that. Again, I could have the story wrong but I think Norm told me that he sold his share in the company to raise money to go racing. At any rate Jet Delivery is still in business today.
     
  4. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Hall credits the improvement with the change in front t-bar location. Low bars on the front wasn't real uncommon as Epperly and others used that setup, but usually with a laid over engine. Although he doesn't mention the rear bars, that original set up was pretty uncommon, I'm sure that probably had something to do with it also. Seems there's always been a lot of "voodoo" about bar heights and such. Can't help but notice that industrial strength drag link also.:)
     

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  5. KK500
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 354

    KK500
    Member

    Further to the #36 (bought-from-Lobitz) car:
    ....wheel base is 97".
    ....Offy was with car originally but not in it Lobitz got the deal just for the offy to go in another project, looks like it was going to get a Chev by the cutouts in the hood.
    ....Torsion bars have always been there, no signs of cross spring brackets.
     

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  6. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 743

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Hi Randall, you have to come out to Havasu one of these years for our November Event
    Steve Logan's 1968 C.A.E. House Car 90% original- Don Hamilton drove it last year.
    http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums...v 9-10 2012/?action=view&current=IMG_1682.jpg
     
  7. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 972

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    Thanks, Carl. It looks like a great race car. And speaking of "house" cars I wonder if there are still any examples around of the rear engined sprint car that CAE advertised at one point. I doubt if very many were ever built but I don't really know. :)
     
  8. Big Dad
    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 4,589

    Big Dad
    Member

  9. jjones752
    Joined: Apr 3, 2008
    Posts: 205

    jjones752
    Member
    from Indy

    So 97" officially puts it in Champ Car range (min. 96"; Sprint Car max. is 90").
    To me, the cutouts in the hood look more like Offy intake-exhaust height; and no hole for the injectors...
    I don't think anyone was speculating that this was the '53 (cross-spring)Kuzma, at least I wasn't; that was just the only Car #36 that I was able to find in the Champcarstats.com site (Pre-cage, pre Silver Crown division). It more closely resembles the 36 that was posted here earlier (#19329) with JR up at the Hoosier Hundred in 1972. Unfortunately, Champcarstats stops listing dirt records after 1970. The original "split", if you think about it; all these years I've been blaming CART.:D
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  10. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    I never knew of a CAE R/E car, interesting. If one exists it would be a rare bird indeed. At one time CAE had, on paper anyway, a offset roadster also. I don't know if any got produced but it would be interesting to know. I believe Cubert had a hand in the original Chenoweth Indy roadster, so I guess it's possible.
     

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  11. KK500
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 354

    KK500
    Member

    Just some pics i found.........thought they needed to see 'daylight'.....
    ( not related to the #36 'inquiry' )

    Thanks 'jjones752' for the info on Mal's #36, will order a copy of that previously mentioned Rutherford pic to compare the details. Am going to Australia for 3 months next week.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  12. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    It's harder to search, but post 1970 S/C results can be found at Ultimate Racing History. I suspect the J.R. #36 was owned by Don Rogala. I don't know anything more about it but others might. http://www.ultimateracinghistory.com/race.php?raceid=2122
     
  13. hissonut1
    Joined: Jan 29, 2012
    Posts: 3

    hissonut1
    Member
    from illinois

    Yes Tommy was my Grandfathers older brother. They were 2 years apart and both into racing. Dont know who Verne Adams is, my dad Ron owned cars for a couple years in like 1959 and 60 and ran MV and IMCA. He had Harold Bengston, JOhnny Derick and Doug Malm drive for him in MV and usually just followed the fair dates of IMCA and used IMCA contract drivers. Dad happened to be laid off one summer and was guarenteed $100. to have the car at each IMCA event. That put food on the table because the car was a field filler and wasn't competitive. The promoters had a guarenteed minimum number of cars they promissed each fairboard in order to get the contract. They were docked for every car they were short on that minimum. I recall stories of the guys blowing up at one event and loading up to go home and the promoter stopping and telling them to show up the following day at the next town and they'd act like it happened as you were unloading just so they could make the minimum car count!
     
  14. Earl Thomas was the 1967 MRA (midwest racing association) supermodified champ at Husets Speedway in Brandon, SD. The Mustang, from local Ford dealer Ben-Hur,was given to him to drive for an undetermined time. possibly one year. In 1967 the modifieds were in transition and slowly morphing into supermodifieds. Earl drove the Don Hander #27 for the championship title.
     
  15. Speedwrench
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    Speedwrench
    Member

    I have a 72 or 73 CAE catalog that shows a picture of the rear engine car and shows part numbers and illustrations of all the parts needed to construct one, but I don't remember actually hearing of one being built or run.
     

  16. Leon Daniels of Blackfoot, Idaho has one of the CAE offset cars that you are talking about.
     

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  17. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 788

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Ah... I was one generation out! :eek: Sorry, didn't read carefully enough.

    Thanks for the info, very interesting. Verne Adams was merely a name I found, probably in the drivers roster in the Paulson book. Obviously, I was adding two and two to get five! :D :rolleyes:
     
  18. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 788

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Yes, it was a Don Rogala car, campaigned from 1971 till '77, always with an Offy as far as I can tell. I can only speculate about its origins, and maybe it was the former Bill Seidelman car, a 1969 (?) Ronnie Ward chassis.
     
  19. Rootie....thanks for the info....very interesting....I ALSO HAVE A FONDNESS FOR THE CARS THAT SOME HOW DON'T WORK....I guess we all love the under dog.
     
  20. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Thanks, VS76. Now that I see one I think I may have seen others just didn't realize they were CAE. Probably not quite as rare as I thought.
     
  21. mac miller
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 522

    mac miller
    Member
    from INDY


    You guys may be interested in some case studies of "success and failure", I wrote on my Indy roadster website. Check it out:

    http://indyroadsters.webs.com/apps/blog/show/1784895-the-kurtis-500g-roadster-vs-the-watson-roadster-

    http://indyroadsters.webs.com/apps/blog/entries/show/2487525-laydown-engine-vs-upright-engine-a-technical-comparison

    mac miller in INDY
     
  22. wilburshawfan
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 27

    wilburshawfan
    Member
    from Indiana

    Thanks Rootie for your post #19401 on your results on the 1972 DuQuoin Champ Dirtcar race. I was working for Ronnie Burke then and did it ever rain that afternoon. I remember Jigger coming in with the turbine car and the electrical system burnt up. If they would have restarted the race, poor Jigger would have been once, again out of luck. Because there was no restart, Jigger finished third.
     
  23. baldtireman
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 378

    baldtireman
    Member

    Is this the same Don Rogala,from Erie,Penna.who provided Pittsburgh's Dick Linder a front running Oldsmobile on the early NASCAR circuit in the early 1950's??? I believe his son still practices law in Erie.:)
     
  24. Denny Zimmerman
    Joined: Jan 8, 2010
    Posts: 504

    Denny Zimmerman
    Member

    Tom Sneva ran a rear engine sprint car in USAC for a short period but it was too much for the competition and was banned. Not sure who built it, may have been Tom himself. Denny Z.
     
  25. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 788

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Rogala was listed as being from Erie in 1971, so probably yes.
     
  26. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    It probably was his dad, Ed, who built it. He built most of what Tom and his brother raced back in the in the early days. A lot of it was pretty radical including a 4wd r/e super that they ran back in the N/W.
     
  27. mac miller
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 522

    mac miller
    Member
    from INDY

    Actually, Sneva's rear engine car was built by Joe Huffaker in 1966. It was one of the second generation MG Liquid Suspension Indy cars, either the Bob Veith #63 car or the Bobby Unser/Vita Fresh O J #11 car.
    When Sneva drove the car in 1973 as sprint car, it was owned by Carl Gelhausen. The liquid suspension had been replaced with coil spring/shocks and the body had been purty well butchered, but, oddly enough, it was still equipped with the Huffaker Genie wheels that it used at Indy.

    mac miller in INDY
     
  28. Mac...that was a good read. I was going through my photos is this the' liquid suspension ' car?...walked right past it .....can just make out Huffakers name on engine cover.....
     

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  29. mac miller
    Joined: Jan 13, 2007
    Posts: 522

    mac miller
    Member
    from INDY

    No, That is the original Huffaker MG Liquid Spl. built in 1964 and successfully raced in '64,'65 and '66. It was a much better car than the 1966 version. I don't have a pic of the '66 car handy but I will try to find one.

    mac miller in INDY
     
  30. I often wonder how far things might have progressed if they had not gone to rear motors......a bit like front motored drag race rails ! (but nobody is going back to front motors)
     

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