The first one I saw do it was Shim Malone. I started doing it with ASA. Even used double greens on the starts once in a while. In regard to Johnny Hicks, I'll bet he felt safer down on the track. I used to love working from the track. Ask Jim Graybeal, he'll tell you that I got that kind of training with the old UMRA TQ circuit. There were a few nights when I thought I was gonna wear one of those little rascals home. Before they put cages on 'em, I actually jumped one. And to whoever mentioned Vic Lipkey - yes, he was a great one. Oh yeah, thanks for the kind words, Old Dawg. I kinda wish I had worked for you, too.