Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

That is an amazing life for an open wheel car. 28 competitive years. Man if that chassis could talk. Can't wait to see pics of the bare chassis.

 

That's some fine research! Now I can't wait to see the car!

 

If it's up to me, I'm voting we do it as the #14 Grancor Car..

 

Hi Guys,

I am also 99.99% the car in question is the Granatelli GranCor KK2000.
Everything points in that direction.

My only question is that KK serial number that is still on the car. It is
" B 325 48". Gordon Whites book has another number listed as that car?

The letter B in the serial number is most unusual. Gordon White toild me last year that this KK2000 must have been very special to carry the letter "B" instead of a "O" for Offenhauser.
The Granatelli car when first built had a Maseratti engine in it. So I guess that could be something special ? Or was it because it was a 3/4 car ?
Or ?????

I hope that someone can come thru with the correct facts. I just don't want the car restored as something its not.
Thank you everyone who is helping. I can't wait to see it restored.
Best Regards and Thanks again!
Ken

 

Josh, I recognize the car, as the 96x ,from back in the 70s. Really hard to say for sure, but that pic could have been taken at a open comp race at the old Pikes Peak Speedway. Don't have any other details but the Carnes Speed Shop on the hood would be Larry Carnes out of Colo. Springs. Don't know if he was the owner, engine builder or sponsor but he built a lot of cars/engines back then. It's probably a long shot but he still is somewhat involved in racing in the area and just recently helped organized a old timers get together. There's a phone # that can be found at this site. (719 area code) He might have some of it's later history. http://www.elpasocountyspeedway.com/news.htm

 

Joshua,
Great research, very time consuming to say the least! I have a question that maybe you or someone on this forum can answer.
In Gordon White's book, page 31 describes the first KK3000 built, known as the "Wynn's Friction Proofing #28". My question is: Is this car still around? I have the engine that ran in this car #111B. It is a 220 series Offenhauser that was a spare engine when my dad and I purchased the Watson / Foyt sprint car from Jeffries. The engine at one time was converted to naturally aspirated with Travers/Hilborn injectors, possibly by G. Bignotti. From information found in G. White's "Offenhauser" book, only 4 of these engines were built. My understanding they were not successful. Again, just curious if this car survived.

Thanks,
Bruce [Offy 220]

 

I understand the frustration. Yet historical books stir conversation, and that effort leads to uncovering the truth even further.

We all have a 'race car bible' that we go by to some extent, in my case it's "High Plains Thunder". Still there seems to be no definitive answer. But it did get us guys talking about old race cars again.

serves a purpose.............

 

Surprising there's been no response, given all the URC/ARDC aficianados on this thread. I don't have a lot of info on his pre-USAC history other than what is common knowledge that his dad owned Hatfield Speedway and he came up through the ARDC/URC ranks. I've always thought that, if things would have turned out differently, today the 2 'iconic' names associated with Indy/USAC would probably be Foyt/Marshman and not so much Foyt/Andretti. Can say he did seem to have a rather rude introduction to USAC Champ car racing at Trenton 1961.

 

I must have missed Steve's original post.

Bobby started in URC. There are pictures out there that are pretty style dated. Bobby became URC rookie of the year, as i recall. But really earned his spurs in ARDC. He was one of Harry Hespell's 4 driver team for several years before moving over to Bruce homeyer's Konstant hot midget in 1960.
His sprint car activities were pretty sparse, in 1960 he had the rather old Frankie Cal car but didn't make any shows.
In 1961 he got the Iddings ride. (the car was set up to run both sprint and Championship races). In the reading opener Bobby had fast time in it.

They went to Trenton and you can see the results!

When he qualified for the 500, some doors opened with him getting Wally Meskowski's ride both champ car and sprint. He ran the offy sprinter with moderate success, but was much more competitive in the champ car. In 1962 he was still in Meskowski's sprinter, but with chevy power. Somewhere in here he moved over to Don Shepherd/Colvin former HOW car, and was in the seat starting the 1963 season. He would move to the new meskowski sprinter after the 500. He had most of his success with this car, winning at Salem and terra haute as I recall, got punted out of winning at new bremen (by Chuck Hulse).

1964 I don't think he was serious about running full time. He started out in the ex Rose trucking/Beletsky Don Brown car, but was running more stocks than sprints.

ps he was a family friend!

 

Well.. Maybe. There is a gentleman here in Cincinnati that has one of the Sumar Kurtis Roadsters. (The only Red Sumar car I know about) I have not seen the car in person but seen pictures of it, and it is the same body style as the KK3000.. So let me check on that.

I do know that if you look in the OFFENHAUSER book, on the contents page there is a Beautiful color shot of the RED and White Roadster I'm talking about.. Check it out, if that's the car, then YES it still exists and is in a Basement in Cincinnati being VERY WELL kept by the Previous owners son.

 

This photo has probably been posted before, on here, but it's a great shot.

From Ed Hitze's book "The Kurtis-Kraft Story" (1974)

 

Marshman had much better luck at Trenton 1961 in the midgets winning the 250 miler.

 

Rootie, Thanks for responding

 

Thanks, Jim. I think my question is how did he get the ride at Indy?

 

Yes, Bobby was URC RoY in 1955, 9th in overall points, driving a Ford V8, it seems. He was 9th again in '56, then runner-up to Brooks in '57 driving the Ellis/Dodge. Concentrated on ARDC the following years (I don't have much on Midgets), and his first USAC start that I have is 1959 at Reading in the Caruso/Offy, finishing 8th in a 50-lapper - enough for 22nd in points. At the 1960 Reading Inaugural, he drove the Cal(andrillo)/Offy as stated by Jim, 3rd in the consy, and failed to qualify for the Trenton Fall Champ Car race in the Ray Brady Kurtis/Offy. Then the fresh start in '61.

 

Yes, same car.

Yes also, Beckley was chief wrench.

 

Josh, do you mean this car?
http://www.winterink.com/Indianapolis/Indianapolis002/dad002_016.htm

Steve,
Bobby had walked the garage area before the first week of indy qualifying, and had no success finding a ride. He was at home on wednesday and got a call that asked if he could get there and get through the drivers test. he and bob hillis drove all night to get there. he went through the entire test friday and managed some practice saturday.

He squeaked in Sunday, was slow man in the field!

I think Don Branson put a word in for him.

 

Thanks again!!!

 

Seems Dobry kinda gave up on oval racing early on but kept campainging the car at Pikes Peak, winning in 52 with Geo. Hammond up. I lose track of it after about 1955, wonder what its subsequent history was?

 

Excellent job, Joshua!

Let me add a couple of notes: I'm pretty sure Gordon White had his car histories a little bit mixed up with this car. The 1948 Grancor was a different car all together from the 1949 Grancor (the "Three-Quarter" car)! The trouble with the 1948 car is that it changed numbers several times, it was apparently entered as #85, then as the picture shows it ran as #69 at Indy, and later that year as #59. It was also #59 in 1949, when Dick Frazier was listed as co-owner, and failed to qualify. I believe Frazier may have driven the car in a few sprint events, but else I'm unsure of what happened to THAT car. It also never had a Maserati engine, another mix-up due to the number changes.

The 1949 Grancor was described as brand new when Chick Barbo drove it for owner Hal Cole at Phoenix on November 11 in 1948, already identified as the TQ car. THIS was the car that Cole drove at Indy in '49, and that went to Pete Wales later that year. It can't have been the same as the 1948 Grancor, as that was also at Indy that year with Dick Frazier! The TQ car had a visibly shorter cowl section, but else was quite identical, except for the tag-on nerf bars. Barbo, Cole, Mantz and Duane Carter ran the car for Cole, and Rex Mays and Sam Hanks were at least entered as drivers, but probably didn't run.

Wales appears to have bought the car as a substitute for the Spider Webb/Offy that was wrecked in Barbo's fatal accident at Salem on July 24, 1949. He ran the car as a dual purpose Sprinter/Champ Car until 1951 or '52, and as a Sprint Car only until at least 1955, which fits in nicely with your story about it going to Dale Doty, whose #98 I have first in 1957! By the way, I believe the driver in your pics is Red Renner, rather than Red Riegel! He finished 8th at the 1958 Little 500, after which I lose track of this car.

 

Stayed with Dobry until 1957, Bob Scovell 1958-62, allegedly to Ernie Koch 1963, but more likely to Don Collins until ca. 1967. Car ran only on the West Coast and at PP after 1950.

 

You 'all' are a terrific source of racing histroy info and I know I speak for many readers who appreciate your sharing your hard won knowledge and efforts put forth here and in other arenas.

 

Thanks, kinda had a suspicion it could have been the Scovell car. Not many KK2000s were still being flogged on the Champ circuit that late in the game.

 

With all this recent disscussion of the Hmiel wreck, I look at this picture and..........

 

That last shot Rootie posted is from Colorado State Fairgrounds in Pueblo, CO. Some cool insight on the photo's from Colorado.
http://www.autoracingmemories.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5001#post5001

 

...

 

Thanks Josh,
I am only guessing that the engine was changed possibly the next year. Toward the back of Gordon's Kurtis book he lists the engine #111B when it was owned by Kurtis Kraft. In 1951 it still is the "Wynn's Spl.", in '52 the "Bardahl Spl." and in '53-'54 the "Sumar Spl." I was just curious if the engine remained with the car thru 1954 or if it was repowered with a 270 or something similar.

The reason I assume G. Bigonitti might have modified the engine and removed the centrifigal supercharger is that the billet crankshaft is stroked a 1/4" from stock stroke and has Bignotti's name stamped on one of the counter-weights. Also the engine has shorter tubular Offy connecting rods. Beautiful car by the way.

Thanks again for your research,
Bruce
[Offy 220]

 

GREAT STUFF Michael!! The car owner and I were VERY MUCH hoping you'd jump in and fill in some of our blanks, and also, as you did... Correct some of our Hunches!

You portrayal of the story makes even more sense! and YES Red Renner was the Driver for Doty! I knew that and goofed up! (my bad) We were also able to find the car listed in the Little 500, more than once! One year it was leading and was favored to win but put out by a faulty pit stop!

Thank you ALL SO MUCH for your insite! The Owner has agreed to restore the car as the #14 Grancor Car. He is a fan of the color Blue so it fits nicely!

He is also the same owner of the #49 Ellison car, and the #23 Hart car so that will tell you what level restoration this car will get!

I CAN'T WAIT!


J Shaw

 

My Dad now owns the City of Tacoma car. Here is a brief history.

HISTORY OF CITY OF TACOMA

When was car built: 1946

Original owner: Leo Dobry

Original color: Cream and Brown

General information: Car was a Kurtis Kraft Series 2000, Mfg. #317. The First Championship car built in the 2000 series. Frank Kurtis completed frame and body at the end of 1947. Ralph Taylor picked the car up from Kurtis in October of 1947 and Hal Cole completed the car at his shop during the end of 1947. The car was displayed in the Northwest and Western Canada before going to Indianapolis in 1948. The original engine in the City of Tacoma was an 8 valve, 4 cylinder sparks, 247 Cu. fl. displacement. The car carried the number 63 as long as Leo Dobry owned it.

Hale Cole was the first driver of the City of Tacoma. He drove at Indianapolis in
1948. Started 14th and finished The car had a new four cylinder unsupercharged
Meyer-Drake Offy, disc brakes with heat dissipating fins and air circulating louvers.
The car was practically a duplicate of Mark HelPings. It was a new lightweight Kurtis
design with a V8 rear end. The car carried #63 on a cream and metallic brown body.

Jack McGrath drove the car at Indianapolis in 1949. Qualified 3rd (front row outside) finished 26th. An 8-valve Offy was borrowed from the #44 car owned by Mr. Schmidt and driven by Manual Yulo. The crew consisted of Jack Beckly, David Fogg, Ralph Taylor, Tom Carsten, Bill Sidelman and Jal Johnson.

Joe James attempted to qualify the car at Indianapolis in 1950 but was too slow. Qualifying speed was 127.438 miles per hour.

Bob Gregg attempted to qualify for Indianapolis in 1951 but qualifying speed was too slow. The car was renamed Esmaralda Special and painted maroon. The engine was 8 valve Sparks with a V8 rear end housing. Sponsored by Bing Crosby and Bob Hope. Car was seen in the movie To Please a Lady” with Clark Gable.

George Hammond won Pikes Peak with the car in 1951. After finishing second in
1950.

Car was sold to Bob Scovell of Portland, Oregon and driven locally by Gordy Youngstrom.

In 1968 the car was sold to Ernie Koch and Bud Beavert of Seattle, Washington. The car was driven by Ernie Koch, Bud Beavert and Gerry McLees. The car was dismantled in 1970 and a portion of it was sold for parts.

Bob Boyce is in the process of restoring the car now. A lot of the original type parts are almost non-existent. When completed the car will be exhibited at special race events during the year and be run on Carburetion Day in May at the Indianapolis
500.

Mark Ulinski purchased the car in 2008 in pieces from Bob Boyce. The
restoration was completed in July of 2010 and first shown at the Miller Meet in Milwaukee.