Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

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<v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 12pt; HEIGHT: 12pt" alt="Default" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\ARTHUR~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>Re: Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread <o></o>

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<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->McGreevy is using a Sam Browne in the above mentioned photos.

I would like to see some discussion, pro or con regarding their use specifically in a non roll bar early car and as in the case of the photo, a non caged roll bar car.

Also...

It appears Mike's belt is headed under his right armpit, not over the shoulder unless it is connecting to another strap over the shoulder and down to the hip. were there diferent styles?

The # 872 photo and reply doesn't exactly show the way the Sam Browne belt encompasses the right arm/shoulder nor where it must hook to the frame on the right side.


Also asking again for comments pro or con regarding the use of the belt please.

 

I don't ever remember them be connected on the right side of the car. Always connected to the left rear area, ie shock mount. The belts use was to keep the driver erect while cornering to aid in fighting the centripital forces. I saw earl Motter rig his to release if he flipped. Didn't understand the logic but there were strange ideas as to how to survive in the 50's.

 

Can't think of too many pro's other than (pre roll cage) they probably allowed a little more ability to duck down further in a roll over (?) As Jim said, most I've seen only hooked to the left but were often used in conjunction with conventional lap belts.

 

Hey Rootie, I think your picture cracked the code, supplementing Rotta 14's picture on the midget thread and Jim's thought that they weren't hooked on the right.

It's obvious to me now that the their function was to keep the driver upright in the corners like a wrap around seat did later.

I had the mistaken thought they were mainly to keep your chest out of the steering wheel and were more like a modern day passenger car cross shoulder strap.

Enlarging the thumbnail on Rotta14's photo on the cageless thread clearly shows the snap connector on the left. With the frequency of drivers coming out of their lap belts in those days, I can see why the Sam Browne hooked in that manner might have created a more serious problem.

Wonder if anyone might have also connected high on the right to acheive both functions.

 

I never saw one hooked on the right side. They were to hold you upright in the car so you did not have to use your hands on the steering wheel to hold yourself upright. That saved a lot energy and you did not get as tired as fast. I still have mine, it is home made[could not afford to buy one]. I think Sam Browne got hurt in a race car and started making them for extra income. Anyone know about that?
Jim Graybeal

 

That's Mario Andretti in the Mataka Brothers Kurtis Offy.

 

I believe Sam Browne is a generic term. While there may have been a racer by that name, the actual Sam Browne belt (a belt with a shoulder strap) was invented waaay back and was used by the military for carrying side arms and swords and such.

 

Google, General Sir Samuel James Browne. British cavalry officer who after loosing an arm in battle needed an alternative method to control his sword while on horseback. Still employed on ceremonial uniforms where a sword is carried by the Army and Marines.

 

Think Dudley Do-Right and the RCMP

 

.....'Rootie, Regarding the Sam Browne belt, that's exactly the same reason I heard 35+ years ago of why some old pros preferred the belt instead of the shoulder harness. And that was to be able to crouch down even further when they tipped over. Luckily, little Mike McGreevy didn't need to utilize his much because he had one of the most grandest careers ever for midget drivers. And, as I told mlight, Mike is now close to 85 years old and supposedly still married to Betty Lark and living in Florida.

 

Found these in my uncles collection. All I know is it's at the GROVE,and Mitch Smith. No clue as to the year or reason for the cake....Rich

 

Great pictures showing the harness LittleFauss.. The McGreevy photo on the midget thread (post #870) when you upsize it shows the left side connection well.

Now my question for you Jim and others is did you connect about the same or did you or others ever tie into the far left side of the lap belt?

 

I wore one a little while, (Rich Vogler was the only one racing when I did that I ever saw with one) we both just mounted them to the left frame rail with a bracket similar to a shock mount

 

Rich,

That looks like Mitch in the USAC car probably 1971.

Cake-no idea. Many times for Birthdays,but this one says Best Wishes..... Of Course that is the beloved promoter Jack Gunn with Mitch.

 

Mitch Smith announced his retirement at the 1972 Horn-Schindler Memorial, could it be that race? Of course, we know he did come back. I believe he drove the Dale Bear #16 in that race, anyone recognize the car?

 

Michael,

What you say does make sense. The Best wishes on the cake fits a retirement announcement. The Bear car looks a lot like the Wasson car he drove in 71. Can`t make out a car # in the photos,but I`d say you may be right.

 

'Lil' Mike McGreevy could make a midget look like a sprint car.

 

Check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaL5xyD0_zo

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_r5hY49jLM

 

Thanks Brian, interesting stuff there. Too bad Sweikert didn't have the same luck as Farmer did.

 

Some great footage...flagmen were crazy back then. And..who was in the yellow 35 that about lost his head ?? Ligouri ?

 

Cotton Farmer, Phx 1960.

 

Thanks...he was a very lucky man that day.

 

Farmer survived his share of scary wrecks on the ovals, but it took crashing off Pikes Peak to really mess him up.

 

Didn't he end up running Devil's Bowl for a while?

 

I really don't know. He was from around those parts, so it very well could be. I know he remained around the sport for quite a few years as a mfg. rep.

 

Mlight,

Mitch won twice in 1971 at WG (6-17-71) (9-25-71) Once at Selinsgrove with USAC.IIRC the hood was white at one of the WG races and painted at the other(almost 40 yrs ago) going by memory is tricky.

In fact I believe the car wasn`t even lettered at the first WG show.

The Bear car was painted about the same as the Wasson. Bear was 1972 according to Michael Ferner

Best wishes cake would support a retirement from racing announcement rather than a birthday cake.
But the huge trophy supports it being one of his wins in 1971.

One thing is sure that is WG Mitch and Jack Gunn at USAC-maybe 71 maybe 72?

I was certain it was 71. Michael thinks Mitch retired in 1972. I don`t remember that.

Am I confused,you better believe it-LOL

 

Excellent! Thnx for posting!

 

Good stuff Brian!! Thanks.

...on a side note, Gus Hoffman bought the Offy out of the crashed Sweikert car and ran it for years to Great success.

J Shaw

 

Does anyone know for sure what happened to the Sweikert car? I have heard a couple of versions.