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Vintage Ford parts. What did I buy?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by attitudor, May 3, 2013.

  1. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    I just bought some vintage genuine Henry Ford parts. So far I have seen them only in the following photos... As I know the cowl looks like a '30-31 Model A "commercial cowl"? I'm using a similar cowl in my Roadster which was missing the rare dash rail. This one seems to have it. Hope its repairable and somewhat similar. I've been told that these cowls were used in fire trucks etc.?

    The rear is obviously a 37-38 axle with large bolt pattern.

    Any idea of the trans? I'm curious to know what year is it. I'm hoping I could use it in my Model A Roadster. How to identify this? Which Flathead motor can be used with this trans? Could this be used with open torque tube / rear end?

    Thanks,
    --mika
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    V-8 60 trans...very light duty. Serial # will begin with 52 or maybe it's 54.
     
  3. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Thanks Bruce. Not the answer I wanted to hear. But good to know. Do they fit with 85hp's? (or anything except 60hp's?)
     
  4. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    I would guess the rear is a 39 by the looks of the radius arms. if it goes to that trans it's a pretty low ratio. the ring and pinion will be marked on the bottom side of the housing right where the torque tube bolts to the center housing.
     

  5. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Thanks revkev, quess I need to start studying and take a lesson on "Pre-War Ford tech 101"...

    I bought '41 both axles from Hamb member Kartsa. Already found out on Hamb that I may face difficulties with the front wishbone. Anyways, I'm building a "40's style" high boy roadster, perhaps with unsplitted wishbone so it should be OK.

    I don't think I'll use this '39 rear but the '41 with 5.5 bolt pattern (maybe with open drive conversion kit)...?


    Looks like I'm still looking for a decent trans for my car... Any ideas?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  6. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    If rear is from a 60, it will be a 4.44, if 85 generally 3.78 or 4.11.
    Trans should be sold to someone with a 60...it could be fitted, but is not strong. Its U-joint is a rare part...I believe that rail is a direct fit on roadster cowl.
     
  7. the cowl is a '31 by the tear drop shaped area on the passenger side of the fire wall, thats where the fuel filter would be.
     
  8. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    whats your end goal for the driveline?? any particular reason you are wanting to go with open drive?? if you want to run a late 30's ford transmission and a banjo rear it only makes sense to stick with the torque tube. makes your rear suspension easier as well.
     
  9. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Thanks, that's good information!

    So I quess my other cowl is '30 then with no tear shape? Sorry for the poor pictures. The cowl has been restored already but I have only these "before" -pictures available at the moment.

    Bruce, (or others) is there any rule of thumb or website how to mix and match flathead motors and trans?
     

    Attached Files:

  10. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    revkev, that's a good point! I wanted the '41 juice brakes and bolt pattern. In my previous plan I was going to use SBC, but at the moment I'm leaning towards Flathead and an early Ford trans. It would make sense to use a torque tube withouth an extra rear 3-link or what so ever. I'm kinda looking after a "period perfect" Roadster, more or less...
     
  11. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    If using early Ford stuff...the early trans like the '39 type will go onto any flathead, directly on pre-1949, with truck or Mercury parts on later ones. Open drive IMHO makes absolutely no sense if using early Ford trans and rear...keep the good suspension geometry provided by the tube. Open drive makes sense because it is mandatory for late trans and rear, but force compromised geometry or some heavy engineering...
    Dent in firewall is late 1931, flat wall is '30-early '31.
     
  12. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Thank you Bruce, that's very good information. Dumb question but could you post a picture of a '39 trans and maybe some identification numbers...? I need to do some research and start hunting. Too bad the Flathead stuff is getting so damn expensive at our heights. Or the blocks are frozen...

    Looks like my title doesn't quite match with the cowl... Never mind. ;)
     
  13. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    This old post:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91515&highlight=39+transmission&showall=1

    has basics...the case can be dated by the serial number, but you also need to ID the insides since so many have been modified or interchanged with other year parts.

    A regular big 221-239 floor trans is similar to youe 60...no protrusion for starter, shifter is about at center of top cover, gearbox part is larger.
    Serial numbers will begin with 18 or 99...
     
  14. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    Not necessarily -- the indented teardrop was very late '31. Earlier 31's (and 30's) looked like yours.
     
  15. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Wow. Cool. Thanks again. Hamb rules! :)

    Shit, I'm still confused with all "bolts" and stuff... I still don't know whether a "21-bolt Flathead" is good or bad. Or what years stand for 59AB And I'm been in this hobby 24 years in age of 35... :) Need to do some homework.
     
  16. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    All flatheads are good!
     
  17. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Thanks "Fenders". I might keep this cowl for a while. You don't find these every day, don't you! It's good to know this being a late '31 Model A part.
     
  18. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Even a V8 - 60 ? Is that the same block with bigger Flatheads?
    Is the '39 trans the first year with separated clutch bell (or what ever that's in English...) ?

    About 9 years ago I sold all my early Ford parts I had collected and started to build my Model A coupe with SBC-TH350-10bolt. 6 years ago I sold my Model T with Cadillac Flathead. Now the A Coupe has been sold and I quess its time to collect some genuine Ford parts again.

    Shit, I have even sold all my 4.5/16 Ford rims and they seem to be difficult to find now. At least from here. You should never sell anything!
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  19. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    The 60m is a tiny engine, looks like a scale model of regular flathead. Too small in my opinion for anything but VERY light hotrods...common in Europe, British Ford 62, French Vedette, also used in many (very slow) American sized Ford over there.
    Everything early Ford is shooting up in price! Stuff like wheels and brakes used to be practically free. I blame A-V8 and the HAMB for spreading the religion to the world!
    :)
     
  20. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Ha! True.
    Yes, I'm starting to remember things I once knew. So, US Fords, even 32-34 etc. had a 85, never V8-60 ?

    I do have two books which I never read; Tex Smith's "The complete ford flathead v8 engine manual" and Mike Davison's "Street flathead". Time to do some homework. ;)

    Thanks Bruce so far.

    edit: I just remembered that I have Tardell's Roadster book somewhere! Need to find it!
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  21. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Ford USA had the 60 available in '37-40...after a bunch were sold in '37, everyone saw how slow they were (genuine obstacles to traffic, not just slow) and sales dropped dead.
    They were used from 1935 into modern times in England and France where they made more sense economically. There was a somewhat downsized body to help out, the Model 62 and Matford body.
     
  22. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

    Ah! It's frustrating to read something and then realize that I once knew that. Oh well, 37 to 40 then. I found my Tardell/Bishop book, which I once read. It seems to have well-written engine and trans chapters.
     
  23. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    It is pretty good on the basics of identifying good material!
     

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