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History Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by KKx125, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. deuce354
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 304

    deuce354
    Member

    Saw on American Pickers on monday night. They were at a fellows place named Mario in Maine somewere. There was a midget racer in the barn. It was seen about 3 or for times , but they never mentioned it. Is Mario a Hamber?, looked like a pretty nice car.
     
  2. bobjeffreson
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Posts: 56

    bobjeffreson
    Member

    Famous Australian midget on video....
    Last shake down run of the Kydd Offy #75 @ a very hard slick Goulburn Speedway 'Oct '89 prior to being air freighted to Houston Texas USA. Car was built by George Shilala from LA Calf. in kit form for Eric Kydd who did final assembly and body fabrication at the Qantas Airlines Jet Base in Sydney Australia commencing in the early 1960s.
    Offy engine was from Jack London.
    Fuel injection was set up by Phil and Chris McGee of McGee Racing Cams.
    This car was being built for one of Australia's premier midget racers, Jeff Freeman. Freeman was killed at Westmead Speedway, Sydney on the 9th May 1965.
    Building of the car ceased that day. Was not resumed for many years.
    Sadly local politics by the Vintage Clubs in Australia, over the livery on the car, saw the car leave Australia in 1989 and it now resides in the USA.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubWIHPXf0IA
     
  3. TommyA19
    Joined: Dec 3, 2010
    Posts: 240

    TommyA19
    Member

    Might anyone know who owned/drove the # 8 in the last photo - the car next to Ritters Offy? It is also in a photo Ritter's daughter sent me - different photo, too.
     
  4. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,167

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    <HR style="COLOR: #e5e5e5; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e5e5e5" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
    Early this month a new thread was started titled...

    Quick Change Information

    This is partly an attempt to identify as many manufacturers as possible over the years. There has been some good input and pictures here but I sense not nearly what there could be because Sprint Car and Midget thread subscribers aren't aware of it.

    Please check it out and contribute if you can. I believe this is a worthwhile and enlightening effort on the part of...

    Bruce Schneider
    Gearhead's Quickchange Exchange
     
  5. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    Can you post a link to this? It would be helpful for those of us who do not hang out on any other part of these boards.

    Doc
     
  6. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,167

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

  7. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

  8. aXe33
    Joined: May 7, 2008
    Posts: 130

    aXe33
    Member
    from Austin Tx

  9. fossilfish
    Joined: Dec 16, 2010
    Posts: 320

    fossilfish
    Member
    from Texas

    Does anyone have photos or information of the Johnson Offy from Houston Texas? they were raced before and after WWII
     
  10. tex44
    Joined: Nov 12, 2008
    Posts: 18

    tex44
    Member

    Here ya go aXe,

    This engine was built by Harry Meyer (brother of Lou Meyer, Meyer-Drake Engineering) in the late '50s or early '60s. He cut a 255 CID Offenhauser engine in half, using the front half to create this unit.

    The engine was a "back door" project of Meyer-Drake, and raced in California in the '60s with limited success. After turning up in the midwest in the '90s, it was run in a vintage midget for several years.
     
  11. the shadow
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,105

    the shadow
    Member

    I started getting parts together to put my project together. I ended up buying a set of speedway hairpains (27") to use on my project. they are a bigger tube then I wanted but all the "used" hairpins I found were so beat & bent up I just decided to go with new steel.
    anyway after mounting them on the original narrowed model A front I beam I found they are real close to the frame, in fact they almost run parallel to it about 1.5-2" off of it. the frame could never hit them but they are dam near straight, were as all the other hair pins in pictures I see on here are canted out on an angle near the kingpin. Is this a safe set up to run with? I have another bare axel that is the same width as the one on my midget now that I can modify by adding hairpin brackets farther out away from the frame if needed.
    my other option is to go to a single torsion bar that atatches to a tab welded under the i-beam out on an angle (which is what the car had when I got it) & return the hairpins to speedway.
    whats your opinions
     

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  12. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,167

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Refer back to page 90 of this thread post # 1784, 1785, 1793 and page 97 post #1925.

    There is a need to separate what is apparently two different 2 cylinder Offy's. The # 2 car Stryker pictured at Belleville is the Shorty Jensen/Lu Holland car and engine.
     
  13. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,167

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    By "single torsion bar" do you really mean a single radius rod as opposed to a hairpin I suspect?

    Single radius rod on the left side with a pivot at the axle would be proper but with a pair of parallel radius rods on the right side.
     
  14. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,799

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I don't think the hairpins running parallel to the rails is a problem as long as you are using some kind of panard bar locating device. If it were on the rear I'd suggest a Watts linkage.
     
  15. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    Ya, you betcha, those are two different half Offys, eh. I saw the Holland/Jensen one run once when we had towed our ratty old Studebaker to Iowa (?) to run an IMCA midget show. It sounded, uh, strange to say the least. This was of no real advantage except it could use up broken 220 Offy pieces.

    Doc
     
  16. the shadow
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,105

    the shadow
    Member


    the original set up on the midget was a single (solid) bar threaded on bothe ends. With model A style tie rod on one end connected to the side rail of the car and the other side of the bar ,also threaded going into a 3/8" thick tab welded to the underside of the I beam axle with a nut welded to the back side of it for the rod to thread into. this was the same on the right & left side. when they were on the car they were angled out away from the frame & not parallel.

    I am second guessing my desision to buy the hairpins because they are made for a t-bucket rod and not a midget. they look to big for the car. I may consider returning them & trying to fab up bars from smaller diameter stock? what diameter tube was mostly used for hair pins, going by the ppics posted on here it looks like 1/2"-3/4"?
    Paul
     

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  17. paddybuilt
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 137

    paddybuilt
    Member
    from SoCal

    1958 U.R.A. Midget yearbook on ebay, Parnelli, and others ran the Riverside 500 report in this one.
     
  18. paddybuilt
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 137

    paddybuilt
    Member
    from SoCal

    For all you roadster midget guys check out the storyand pictures on one Don Edmonds built on his web page. Edmonds Autoresearch. cool story.
     
  19. sideways27
    Joined: Jan 4, 2009
    Posts: 285

    sideways27
    Member

    I am hoping someone out there can help me locate a TQ midget. It was built and sponcered by Bell Auto and owned by Art Bagnell. It was # 52 and ran on the west coast in the NMRA Assoc. in the 50's. Had a triumph motor and was last known to be in the NY area. The owner called Art and asked if he was interested in purchasing the car but Art was not interested at the time. Any help would be appreaciated.
     
  20. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 659

    BZNEIL
    Member

    My Dads edmunds, which we think have older Kurtis hairpins are 3/4" OD

     
  21. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,167

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    The earliest cars had single radius rods silmilar to what you are picturing.

    Then mostly pre-war, came split Model A Ford slightly oval wishbones like the first two pictures..

    Also there were some parallel bars of perhaps 3/4" diameter utilizing a clevis at the bracket on the front axle and tie rod end at the frame. Notice on the 28 car the tie rod passes between the radius rods.

    The rear on the 28 car were like a wishbone but not parallel and each tube bolted to the rear axle housing flange in the rear.

    Some used only one radius rod on the left side front and attached the leftside rear with only one bolt to allow for flex.

    Then came the tubular wishbones as on Kurtis and others, mostly post war.

    My project car came to me with ugly tubular wishbone fronts and nice oval rears with nerf bars added, pivoting around the axle housing. This was a mix that was totally unpallatable to me. Thus again what you see in the first two pictures.

    So...do your own thing. The only one you have to please is yourself. Make it the way you feel it should be, given that most of the pre-war midgets were constantly changed and upgraded into the 60's if they were still being run.
     

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  22. Steve Bonesteel
    Joined: Aug 31, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Steve Bonesteel
    Member
    from Clovis, Ca

    Took the finished Woodland Parnelli Jones tribute midget roadster back over to Woodland's museum last Wed.
     

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  23. paddybuilt
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 137

    paddybuilt
    Member
    from SoCal

    Steve, Nice Job! Dick Woodland has such a great collection! If any of you H.A.M.B. ER's out there are passing thru Paso Robles Ca. you owe it to yourself to stop by the airport and check out his museum.
     
  24. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,799

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    28,
    That #6 car has a beautiful body. I see a U-flow engine w/ three carbs. What engine do you have in it? Nice.
     
  25. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,167

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Thanks for the kind words regarding the body. Here's an angle that shows what isn't obvious, the flare out of the original body that was made for a rail frame that someone flared to accomodate a tube frame and not utilize "cheeks" in the nose.

    The engine is a fuel injected Studebaker Champion. The throttle runners are inclined 14 degrees to allow clearance with my desired horizontal header.
     

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  26. the shadow
    Joined: Mar 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,105

    the shadow
    Member

    how to bridge the gap or lengthen the drive gear on an in/out box input shaft coupling. between the crank flange & the I/O gear? I need to pick up 3.125" to go threw my mid plate & extend into the bell housing on my v8-60. I am not even sure these parts are correct for the box I have, it looks like the input shaft was cut down on a lather from another shaft? it is too short by 1 13/16" & needs to be turned doen more to fit into the pilot bearing that is supposd to be inside the stock v8-60 crank flange coupler. there are only 3 pieces to the box internals- a main shaft,slider gear & the fron gear??? see pics
    Paul
     

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  27. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,167

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    I am totally unfamiliar with this particular housing and the crank flange and coupler gear (which have to be locked together as in welded or other means).

    The innards of the box appear to be the common clutch shaft, 3rd sliding gear and its fork, commonly used on this type of box.

    I think your main problem may be that this box was made to be fitted to a V8-60 with the bell housing cut off and you are mounting your engine to an engine plate with the bell housing and trying to mount your I/O box to the back side of the engine plate.

    I will post a picture of an Ambler box (which includes a gear change) but notice how the I/O function is ahead of the engine plate mounting area (the cast half round flange on the left hand piece) and in fact the front of the housing does not fasten to the engine block. It is only proximate to it.

    In the picture, the casting on the left has been rotated 180 degrees to show the mating surface to the other casting.

    Notice the purpose made one piece coupler gear to the far left.

    The sliding gear is the same as yours but the gear teeth on the OD have been cut off.

    The gears at the top are all change gears, one of which is in place on the right end of the splined shaft and within the internal driven gear.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  28. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    That is exactly what I was thinking. I'm trying to think of someone who is still alive who is familiar with these kind of issues, but I'm drawing a blank.

    Doc
     
  29. DocF
    Joined: Feb 22, 2011
    Posts: 120

    DocF
    Member

    I've been thinking, which can be dangerous. You might get some help from the old boat racer (and sometime midget racer) Tom D'Eath. He lives in the Bradenton, FL area now. I used to have his phone number, but I can't find it.

    I know he once raced a 135 hydro and most of them ran V8-60s with cut bell housings.

    Doc
     
  30. KKx125
    Joined: Dec 22, 2008
    Posts: 72

    KKx125
    Member

    Hi Steve,I wondered what was the signifance of the beautiful roadster midget #98 in post 3472,Is it a replica of a car that Parnelli drove. I hope to visit the museum on my next trip to the U.S. Ralph Baiza told me about this museum when i met him at Willow Springs in november 2010 All the Best ,Gordon.
     

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